SAM out classing all other DPS

[Silverquick]

Yeaaa no. SAM walks all over RDM 314 lvl 70.

The SAM who think they aren't too strong right now sound exactly like NINs did in 2.4. There is in no possible way you can think it is okay to do 25% more damage than the lowest DPS in the game.

Yeah but that's not what I said.

I said up to my current level 67th, they are not able to beat RDM, and DRG has put up better numbers in the parces I've seen. So it must be something at level 70 that I haven't seen yet.

[Nominous]

Yeaaa no. SAM walks all over RDM 314 lvl 70. The SAM who think they aren't too strong right now sound exactly like NINs did in 2.4. There is in no possible way you can think it is okay to do 25% more damage than the lowest DPS in the game.

This is such a simple situation, I'm not understanding how blind people are to why SAM is balanced the way it is.

So. Let's say they brought everyone closer to Samurai damage. Let's say SAM does... at BEST, 10% more damage than the next best Job. Why bring SAM for 10% more damage, when you could have Battle Litany for the WHOLE PARTY, and Dragon Sight? Why bring SAM when you could have Trick Attack FOR THE WHOLE PARTY? Why bring SAM when you could have Brotherhood and Mantra FOR THE WHOLE PARTY?

Each slot in your party in an end-game setting needs to be looked at in terms of not only it's raw DPS, but it's overall benefit to total raid DPS. The most powerful DPS right now are NIN and RDM. Specifically RDM, because they can offer some of the highest damage, it can heal, res, AND offers a damage buff that is comparable in strength (due to uptime) as Trick Attack. Same as NIN, who is the second highest Melee damage next to SAM, AND offers Trick Attack to your party.

SAM is powerful, but it adds nothing to your party but damage. If you're taking it, it NEEDS to fulfill this role. I'd be careful what you ask for. Because when other things get buffed, and SAM complain (the same way MNK complained, for the same reasons), SAM is only going to get buffed in the end, and then they'll really be broken. The same thing happened in 3.xx where MCH and BRD got counter-buffed against one another because one community complained, then the other.

[Shiroe]

The buffs like the drg buffs, BL and piercing, in the past where too strong, they should be more minor in a "nice to have" way and but "most wanted" manor. Drg were overused in most parties. At least now more dps have buffs to contribute. But so many leaving Mch and other jobs for the promised dps-beast Samurai.

In case of lowering the party buffs, the personal dps of most dps should be increased. So atleast in some fights, depending on mechanics or such, they can still compete with Sam.

[Nominous]

The buffs like the drg buffs, BL and piercing, in the past where too strong, they should be more minor in a "nice to have" way and but "most wanted" manor. Drg were overused in most parties. At least now more dps have buffs to contribute. But so many leaving Mch and other jobs for the promised dps-beast Samurai.

In case of lowering the party buffs, the personal dps of most dps should be increased. So atleast in some fights, depending on mechanics or such, they can still compete with Sam.

DRG weren't overused, it was just flat out stronger than MNK due to raid DPS increases. MNK was higher DPS than DRG in 3.xx, not by a large margin though (5-10% maybe). Guess what? 5-10% stronger was not enough for MNK to win against DRG, when Disembowel buffed BRD and MCH DPS, and Battle Litany buffed everyone. 10% stronger than NIN meant nothing when NIN offered TA.

This is what I'm talking about. Jobs CAN compete with SAM, and ARE. If you aren't seeing it, you're just not looking hard enough. Let's break it down. Pretty much every DPS in this game (other than BLM and SAM now) offer at least one of two (or both) forms of support to a party. Either Physical Damage Support or General Support (things like Smoke Bomb/Mantra). If we break it down further, what does every DPS bring?

MCH- Damage buffs
BRD- HP/MP buffs, Damage buffs
NIN- Damage buffs, Enmity manipulation (which indirectly increases Tank DPS by allowing more DPS stance/combos)
MNK- Damage buffs, Mantra
DRG- Damage buffs, More damage buffs
SMN- Damage buffs, Res
RDM- Damage buffs, Healing, Res
SAM- Nothing.
BLM- Nothing.

Why are WHM afraid of not being brought to raid? Not because they can't do their Job. They certainly fulfill the healing role. It's because they don't bring anything extra to the table (also they don't like lillies). Why were MNK not brought to raid last expansion? They brought nothing extra to the party (people didn't even care that it had mantra). So why do you think, when we've already seen how this has played out with MNK (and nobody cared about the utility OR raw DPS of MNK), that SAM will be fine when put in the same (but worse) situation?

Also, again, you can not argue that SAM is too powerful when you have RDM who bring 3 unique things as a DPS (AND good DPS).

[Powercow]

Because when other things get buffed, and SAM complain (the same way MNK complained, for the same reasons), SAM is only going to get buffed in the end, and then they'll really be broken.

Yeah, next expansion Samurai will get a skill that increases a couple of people's raid DPS by less than a percent like Monk did! That'll show 'em!

[Nominous]

Yeah, next expansion Samurai will get a skill that increases a couple of people's raid DPS by less than a percent like Monk did! That'll show 'em!

If people whine and complain, and SAM ends up being put in the effectively same spot as MNK in 3.xx, I wouldn't be surprised. Again, we've seen this exact scenario play out. MNK was supposed to be 'fine' by bringing more DPS than anyone. They weren't. SAM is in a spot that's better than that, because it's extra DPS is at a threshold where it actually matters. Anything below it, and it will be in a worse spot than 3.xx MNK. Anything above it, and it'd actually be too strong.

[Shiroe]

It's not good, when there such OP elements. Sam's single-target damage, Blm's aoe damage, Ast's balance. In the past Drgs buffs, Mch buffs.

Mnk used to be top dps, but not by such a large margin. And there were fights, where a Nin or Drg could keep up, due to many phase changes or bad positionals in a fight.

[Nominous]

It's not good, when there such OP elements. Sam's single-target damage, Blm's aoe damage, Ast's balance. In the past Drgs buffs, Mch buffs.

Mnk used to be top dps, but not by such a large margin. And there were fights, where a Nin or Drg could keep up, due to many phase changes or bad positionals in a fight.

Yeah, and you know what happened to MNK in 3.xx? Are you reading? Have you been paying attention to how people felt about MNK in the last patch cycle? Lol. People could keep up with MNK, which is precisely why nobody cared about bringing MNK. Like, ever.

[Arkenne]

Yeah, and you know what happened to MNK in 3.xx?

Err... they are agreeing to your point...

[BelraugFire]

1. Since you were not following what I said, my trolling was a result of them purposely attacking my skill as player, it was never intended to make my argument stronger, this wasn't even an argument to begin with, I want to here people's views, 2. I have played it some, but I have been talking my observations from the skill list and from other players, friends included who have played it. 3. I know it brings a slashing rebuff as it's only utility, I can compare it to a monk who is quite similar in this regard, but potency output is double theirs, that makes no sense, and even though Sam being similar to a monk, no one had problems keeping up with a monk. Again these are my observations from the players i have played with, i do believe it needs to be balanced, my monk and drg friends feel under powered when compared to a Sam, and have done savage content. Again I want to hear everyone's view on the subject not these, "you haven't played it so your word is meaningless" crap.