SAM out classing all other DPS

[Shortie]

Problem right now is that SAM is a little too strong. Every country forums are up in arms about it. Danger with that, is its making other classes obselete lol.

Sam is parsing like 20% higher than other DPS (Median Average), and about 30% above support DPS (MCH/BRD). As far as community is concerned, utility doesnt make up for that massive DPS.

I mean.. fastest Sasuno/EX I have seen was 4 SAM DPS.. and it was way faster. Phases were even pushed.. utility be damned.

That being said, everything is wonky at this point of the expansion. We need to see how things work out. For all we know, SAM may scale like crap. But I think its waaay to early to call for nerfs.


The only problem I have is MCH being crap (horrid utility compared to BRD/NIN and less DPS), and SAM is literally making DRG/MNK obelete.

SE cant anticipate everything in an expansion, but one thing I know, is they are pretty good at balancing numbers, even if the average player doesnt understand it.

[Carstien]

Yeaaa no. SAM walks all over RDM 314 lvl 70.

Also let me explain that these numbers are SAMs damage in a vacuum. SOLO. Meaning this number only gets exasperated while in a party under the effects of trick attack, hypercharge, foes and the like.

When you say they are SAM's numbers in a vacuum, you conveniently ignore the negatives of that and focus on 'they will have other buffs'. Everybody else will have those buffs too, but BRD and MCH in particular will have possible disembowel, on top of providing more damage to the entire party, tp and mp and most importantly, having infinite mobility. They never ever have to stop attacking and that will close the gap significantly. SAM cannot, and has no utility to provide so overall raid damage would be pathetic if it didn't have significantly higher than the other jobs. MNK has already proven that.

[Shortie]

Cant really compare since every AST will give SAM the balance card and DRG will only link with other SAM when possible :/ So some buffs arent universal. And numerical speaking, SAM gets more value out of party buffs than other DPS classes since buffs are percentage based. (i.e. 4500 DPS on a 10% TA is 450 extra DPS.. on a MCH performing 3800 DPS.. TA is 380 extra DPS).
.

[Carstien]

You don't get 450 dps out of a 4500 dps player with trick attack though, you only get that damage in 10 second intervals. That isn't how you calculate it from end of fight dps. Disembowel on the other hand is a straight increase of 190 dps to those MCH numbers. Now add in 5% increase for every job for 30 seconds every 2 minutes, that's a 25% uptime. Add that to MCH numbers. Now take into account that they never ever need to stop attacking, doing any mechanics whatsoever, they have huge range and can freely dps on the go. On top of that they have a good amount of non damage utility to add to any group, TP, MP, damage reduction and their own versions of feint and addle.

In a vacuum, they look weak, put them in a group before making judgements, that's all anybody should be doing, because a vacuum has negatives and positives and is no way to judge viability of any job.

[Shortie]

For all current content I have, several times.
Its not worth it as stated in my previous post.

And my point was not overall fights DPS, but value of party buffs per class. Given that your previous point was that all classes share the same value from party buffs.

And MCH (since that is your example), has horrid utility. TP regen not needed now since the most TP intensive classes had TP reduction and all melee dps use Goad, less +damage% than NIN/RDM/DRG and SAM also have have damage reduction ability (Feint).

I think your main point is mobilty, which I agree is a selling point for a MCH. But SAM is no slouch with mobility. They have a disengage and gap closer as well, so they have decent uptime on a boss.
That and MCH is way harder to play than SAM, with less rewards. MCH has to be the most punishing class in the game, since when they overheat... without Barrel Stabilizer ready (2 minute cooldown), it can actually be a DPS loss.

[EdwinLi]

As for me.....


Balancing and stuff is most likely going to happen to all Jobs once we hit 4.X timeframe anyways and a lot of consideration will be taken in from the Job's Utility access, current dps, and how it is handled in content.

My best guess is that the other Jobs may get a buff while SAM gets no buff since it is already in a position to handle the current content.

[Sam26]

I'm more concerned about the caster vs melee topic now than SAM doing more dps than the other jobs.

I believe that SAM and BLM should be the Top dps since they don't provide any dps utility to the group but I don't know how to feel about RDM/SMN beeing above MNK/NIN/DRG in single target dps.
They both provide good group utility / don't lose much dps compared to a BLM when they have to move and also have better Aoe/Multitarget dmg (atleast smn, don't know about rdm yet).
Since they are ranged,they also don't have to worry about positionals to do dmg.
I'm worried that melees might lose their niche if caster/range dds become better than them in any situation like it happened in the past in WoW ._.

I believe that the NIN dps was parsed with including TA in the rota, so MNK's dps should be higher than NIN's dps if you subtract the dmg added to the NIN by TA.

It's to early to jump to conclusions though before we see the new raid content /know the stat weights for our jobs.

[Ryaz]

It'll be fun when Sam gets nerfed to be "competitive" and then gets left on the sidelines because they bring no utility.

I'm not saying there doesn't need to be balancing done, but we need a lot more parsing from some real content before we start throwing around nerfs and buffs.

But, its an MMO. The player base only believes a class is OP if it's not the one they play. If it is, it's fine. Nothing more than epeen in action really.

[Nominous]

It'll be fun when Sam gets nerfed to be "competitive" and then gets left on the sidelines because they bring no utility.

I'm not saying there doesn't need to be balancing done, but we need a lot more parsing from some real content before we start throwing around nerfs and buffs.

But, its an MMO. The player base only believes a class is OP if it's not the one they play. If it is, it's fine. Nothing more than epeen in action really.

This is accurate. Everything is a chain reaction too. Couple classes are feeling left out because one is doing well, then the one loses what made them unique (everyone getting their own trick attack/ hypercharge equivalent), or they become less attractive for parties in general. Then the previously "OP" class needs to be buffed because they don't offer enough. Which usually results in them receiving the same things the other classes used to have as unique draws.

Bleh.

I'd rather NOT have party buffs on SAM, but just like MNK, and DRG, that's the inevitable future for them if people continue on this track wanting this kind of "balance".

[Lorielle]

People can stop being sheep and just play the jobs they like. Whether SAM gets nerfed or not, I know I'll follow it to the end. Because it's simply the job that I actually like.