SAM out classing all other DPS

[Silverquick]

Yeaaa no. SAM walks all over RDM 314 lvl 70.

The SAM who think they aren't too strong right now sound exactly like NINs did in 2.4. There is in no possible way you can think it is okay to do 25% more damage than the lowest DPS in the game.

Yeah but that's not what I said.

I said up to my current level 67th, they are not able to beat RDM, and DRG has put up better numbers in the parces I've seen. So it must be something at level 70 that I haven't seen yet.

[Nominous]

Yeaaa no. SAM walks all over RDM 314 lvl 70. The SAM who think they aren't too strong right now sound exactly like NINs did in 2.4. There is in no possible way you can think it is okay to do 25% more damage than the lowest DPS in the game.

This is such a simple situation, I'm not understanding how blind people are to why SAM is balanced the way it is.

So. Let's say they brought everyone closer to Samurai damage. Let's say SAM does... at BEST, 10% more damage than the next best Job. Why bring SAM for 10% more damage, when you could have Battle Litany for the WHOLE PARTY, and Dragon Sight? Why bring SAM when you could have Trick Attack FOR THE WHOLE PARTY? Why bring SAM when you could have Brotherhood and Mantra FOR THE WHOLE PARTY?

Each slot in your party in an end-game setting needs to be looked at in terms of not only it's raw DPS, but it's overall benefit to total raid DPS. The most powerful DPS right now are NIN and RDM. Specifically RDM, because they can offer some of the highest damage, it can heal, res, AND offers a damage buff that is comparable in strength (due to uptime) as Trick Attack. Same as NIN, who is the second highest Melee damage next to SAM, AND offers Trick Attack to your party.

SAM is powerful, but it adds nothing to your party but damage. If you're taking it, it NEEDS to fulfill this role. I'd be careful what you ask for. Because when other things get buffed, and SAM complain (the same way MNK complained, for the same reasons), SAM is only going to get buffed in the end, and then they'll really be broken. The same thing happened in 3.xx where MCH and BRD got counter-buffed against one another because one community complained, then the other.

[Powercow]

Because when other things get buffed, and SAM complain (the same way MNK complained, for the same reasons), SAM is only going to get buffed in the end, and then they'll really be broken.

Yeah, next expansion Samurai will get a skill that increases a couple of people's raid DPS by less than a percent like Monk did! That'll show 'em!

[Ephier]

This is such a simple situation, I'm not understanding how blind people are to why SAM is balanced the way it is.

So. Let's say they brought everyone closer to Samurai damage. Let's say SAM does... at BEST, 10% more damage than the next best Job. Why bring SAM for 10% more damage, when you could have Battle Litany for the WHOLE PARTY, and Dragon Sight? Why bring SAM when you could have Trick Attack FOR THE WHOLE PARTY? Why bring SAM when you could have Brotherhood and Mantra FOR THE WHOLE PARTY?

Each slot in your party in an end-game setting needs to be looked at in terms of not only it's raw DPS, but it's overall benefit to total raid DPS. The most powerful DPS right now are NIN and RDM. Specifically RDM, because they can offer some of the highest damage, it can heal, res, AND offers a damage buff that is comparable in strength (due to uptime) as Trick Attack. Same as NIN, who is the second highest Melee damage next to SAM, AND offers Trick Attack to your party.

SAM is powerful, but it adds nothing to your party but damage. If you're taking it, it NEEDS to fulfill this role. I'd be careful what you ask for. Because when other things get buffed, and SAM complain (the same way MNK complained, for the same reasons), SAM is only going to get buffed in the end, and then they'll really be broken. The same thing happened in 3.xx where MCH and BRD got counter-buffed against one another because one community complained, then the other.

You are missing the point of what I said. There is absolutely no reason there should ever be a 25% damage gap between the highest and lowest DPS. EVER. That gap just literally invalidates the weakest class. SAM will not be buffed. I see them taking around 100~ or so DPS from SAM the same way they hit NIN in 2.45. MCH was a balancing nightmare since the start. They couldn't figure out how to balance either of them and over buffed both of them. The DPS order should be Melee>=Casters>Ranged. That's fine. But the current gap between top and bottom is too big. It needs to be narrowed. Seeing as how you are a SAM your points and view point are biased. But pretty much the entire community besides SAMs think that they are overtuned and need to be brought down a little.

[Shurrikhan]

This is such a simple situation, I'm not understanding how blind people are to why SAM is balanced the way it is.

So. Let's say they brought everyone closer to Samurai damage. Let's say SAM does... at BEST, 10% more damage than the next best Job. Why bring SAM for 10% more damage, when you could have Battle Litany for the WHOLE PARTY, and Dragon Sight? Why bring SAM when you could have Trick Attack FOR THE WHOLE PARTY? Why bring SAM when you could have Brotherhood and Mantra FOR THE WHOLE PARTY?

Not taking sides here, but just to throw out a metric:

For sake of simple example, lets say that with everything perfectly balanced, each DPS contributes 18% of the raid's DPS, each healer 6%, the OT 12% and the MT 10%. Trick Attack, with used perfect uptime, would produce an additional 1.67% raid DPS. However, so would any of those DPS dealing just 9.28% more personal DPS. That's on average, though, of course. Should a disproportionate (above average) amount of damage fall within the Trick Attack window, as it should, that amount increases, possibly to the range of 11% or so. Of course, to a smaller extent, the same can then be said of raid contribution from an AST when given a 9-11% more efficient Enhanced/Extended Balance/Arrow target.

Yes, SAM should be significantly stronger. The question is should it really *just* be about personal DPS, which would curtail the chance of balance in any serious lower-man content, should that ever be a possibility, and ultimately makes some aspects of raiding with a SAM less interesting ("Who wants Balance/Arrow?! Oh wait, you're not the SAM...").

[Carstien]

Yeaaa no. SAM walks all over RDM 314 lvl 70.

Also let me explain that these numbers are SAMs damage in a vacuum. SOLO. Meaning this number only gets exasperated while in a party under the effects of trick attack, hypercharge, foes and the like.

When you say they are SAM's numbers in a vacuum, you conveniently ignore the negatives of that and focus on 'they will have other buffs'. Everybody else will have those buffs too, but BRD and MCH in particular will have possible disembowel, on top of providing more damage to the entire party, tp and mp and most importantly, having infinite mobility. They never ever have to stop attacking and that will close the gap significantly. SAM cannot, and has no utility to provide so overall raid damage would be pathetic if it didn't have significantly higher than the other jobs. MNK has already proven that.

[Shortie]

Cant really compare since every AST will give SAM the balance card and DRG will only link with other SAM when possible :/ So some buffs arent universal. And numerical speaking, SAM gets more value out of party buffs than other DPS classes since buffs are percentage based. (i.e. 4500 DPS on a 10% TA is 450 extra DPS.. on a MCH performing 3800 DPS.. TA is 380 extra DPS).
.

[Silverquick]

Yeaaa no. SAM walks all over RDM 314 lvl 70.

The SAM who think they aren't too strong right now sound exactly like NINs did in 2.4. There is in no possible way you can think it is okay to do 25% more damage than the lowest DPS in the game. That completely invalidates the class.

Well As of 69th they are not "blowing the doors of RDM".

I was able to get some parces with a SAM who knew what he was doing... in the similar gear.

This one was able to beat me... by about 80 dps which was very slight.

I ended up with 34% he ended up with 35%... so no they're very close as of 69th level as well.

[Ephier]

Well As of 69th they are not "blowing the doors of RDM".

I was able to get some parces with a SAM who knew what he was doing... in the similar gear.

This one was able to beat me... by about 80 dps which was very slight.

I ended up with 34% he ended up with 35%... so no they're very close as of 69th level as well.

So again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gLZkQDMaOc

Blows them out the water.

[edgefusion]

^ This, and the fact so many are abandoning the other classes, because Sam is just so much more OP.

The other classes have been nerfed too much, they should lower they're "contribution" and increase they're personal dps, or nerfed Sam.

Are people abandoning other classes because SAM is powerful, or because their own classes were gutted and they need a new main? I for one have switched from Monk to Samurai because SE saw fit to make that class trash-tier. imo it's not a question of nerf SAM but alter the horrible changes they made to other classes.