Boycotting Warrior 4.0 (Let's do it!)

[Reynhart]

Yes, I recognize it's a pain to lose 50% our BG when we swap.

Why does no one acknowledge how awesome it is to be able to build 100 instead of complaining than you can not have more than what IB requres after swap (Which was always th case) ? Now, you can naturally do 2 Fell Cleaves back to back. And also, you can build Gauge faster than before with Storm's Path.

4) Infuriate only in combat: For this one I have nothing to say. It's a bad desing and I hope it gets hotfixed to be able to use it outside combat to for prepulls.

The thing is, prepulls are painful. Having to wait 45 seconds for a WAR to do its trick is boring as hell. Even NIN got something to remove the 23s prepulls. Besides, by the time you start your opener, you basically didn't let anyone put their buffs and debuffs, meaning that the first GCDs on your berserk window will be weak.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Why does no one acknowledge how awesome it is to be able to build 100 instead of complaining than you can not have more than what IB requres after swap (Which was always th case) ? Now, you can naturally do 2 Fell Cleaves back to back. And also, you can build Gauge faster than before with Storm's Path.

This isn't new. I did the Triple Fell Cleave opener 90% of the time throughout Heavensward. People are complaining because Warrior went from a fantastic job to one now languishing behind Paladin. For all the talk of how Warrior was too strong. Have y'all seen Paladin? It makes Warrior and Dark Knight look like complete jokes. All the swap cost does is encourage even more players to switch to Deliverance faster and stay in it longer.

The thing is, prepulls are painful. Having to wait 45 seconds for a WAR to do its trick is boring as hell. Even NIN got something to remove the 23s prepulls. Besides, by the time you start your opener, you basically didn't let anyone put their buffs and debuffs, meaning that the first GCDs on your berserk window will be weak.

... that isn't how a good pre-pull works. In Heavenward, my Triple Cleave lined up perfectly fine with Machinist's Hypercharge and Ninja's Trick Attack. I just delayed my second Cleave a little. I don't actually mind this change though.

[Reynhart]

This isn't new. I did the Triple Fell Cleave opener 90% of the time throughout Heavensward.

No, sorry, that's totally new. Because what you needed to do the Triple Fell Cleave in HW now allows you to do the Hexa Fell Cleave.

People are complaining because Warrior went from a fantastic job to one now languishing behind Paladin.

People complain a lot about how WAR's gameplay has changed, and not about its numbers.

If they complained more about how its DPS could be lacking compared to PLD (And even DRK)...then I'd be totally okay with that. WAR should have higher DPS because it now has clearly less group mitigation.

But for that, I'd like to see actual DPS numbers, which were not provided yet to claim that PLD is really that powerful.

[Achelon]

People complain a lot about how WAR's gameplay has changed, and not about its numbers.

In fact, what I really see people complaining about, is that WAR is not the best tank, god-tier anymore, and that is behind Paladin, who has been the worst tank for a whole expansion.
So it all comes to "I'm not the most broken tank and in fact I'm behind in something to other tanks, so I'm shit".

We have better damage than DRK, and we still have to see if PLD do have better damage than we do or not (at level 70 we can have Infuriate aproximately every 30s with the trait).
We have better mobility than Paladin but worse than DRK.
We have better AoE than PLD (my opinion on this tho) but worse than DRK (not in damage but in options).
We have worse mitigation than DRK and PLD.
We have better sustain than DRK or PLD (Storm's Path, Equilibrium and Inner Beast).

[Alphras]

We have worse mitigation than DRK and PLD.

Very debatable.

[Reynhart]

So it all comes to "I'm not the most broken tank and in fact I'm behind in something to other tanks, so I'm shit".

I would be sad if that state overshadows some constructive criticism about the new WAR.

Very debatable.

Personal mitigation ? Debatable
Group mitigation ? Undoubtedly lower

[Baci]

People complain about the stance swap cost cause you spend time building up your gouge just to loose it.
Ofcourse you can swap at 0 gauge but then you stand there with 0 gauge afterall not allowing you to do that 6x FC what so many people are praising, cause you need 2 eye and 2 path combos to get your full gauge.
Atm it just feels somewhat sluggish and unrewarding to even swap your stance.
And the CD share from unchained and inner release is just stupid.
WAR isnt broken or whatever. It just feels unrewarding to play

[Alphras]

We will need to see if group mitigation is even a thing in the new savage content. The extreme primals don't seem to need that much.

With the new cross skills there is so much damage reduction flying around that it's already silly.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

No, sorry, that's totally new. Because what you needed to do the Triple Fell Cleave in HW now allows you to do the Hexa Fell Cleave.

The Hexa Fell Cleave is, but your post implied multiple Fell Cleaves wasn't possible when it was. You simply burned Raw and Vengeance for stacks.

In fact, what I really see people complaining about, is that WAR is not the best tank, god-tier anymore, and that is behind Paladin, who has been the worst tank for a whole expansion.
So it all comes to "I'm not the most broken tank and in fact I'm behind in something to other tanks, so I'm shit".

We have better damage than DRK, and we still have to see if PLD do have better damage than we do or not (at level 70 we can have Infuriate aproximately every 30s with the trait).
We have better mobility than Paladin but worse than DRK.
We have better AoE than PLD (my opinion on this tho) but worse than DRK (not in damage but in options).
We have worse mitigation than DRK and PLD.
We have better sustain than DRK or PLD (Storm's Path, Equilibrium and Inner Beast).

Plenty of people wanted the other tanks brought closer to Warrior's level. What SE did is nerf the other two while buffing Paladin into the moon. They essentially traded one god tier tank for another... which only promotes Paladin to the "mandatory" tank slot.

Warrior butches Dark Knight in terms of pure mitigation. Vengeance is a better CD than Shadow Wall; Dark Mind lost its unique factor and DRK now has nothing to compare against Inner Beast or Equilibrium . They also have the weakest self sustainability by a mile against bosses. Mitigation wise, DRK is hurting. So really... what does DRK offer? That's a bigger concern for me than Warrior being OP because like it or not, people care about "what jobs are better." These changes only hurt tank variety, which sucks for people who prefer one over the other.

[Reynhart]

The Hexa Fell Cleave is, but your post implied multiple Fell Cleaves wasn't possible when it was.

It wasn't naturally doable. You had to use additionnal skills.

People complain about the stance swap cost cause you spend time building up your gouge just to loose it.

The thing is, the gauge price on stance swapping doesn't automatically makes you weaker than other tanks, which is the most important part. The game is rebalanced, like it was when 3.0 launched.

And besides, with the reduced cast time on Berserk, it's probably better to do timed spike damage than burning your Gauge every 50 points, so you'll have time to rebuild your beast.

As for the shared CD, it's the tradeoff for two very powerful skills, forcing you to plan your stances for longer duration.

We will need to see if group mitigation is even a thing in the new savage content.

Considering that DRK and PLD can offer one-time mitigation higher than the basic tank stance, it could be very useful for skipping stance swap (Especially if the MT is a WAR) just before a tankbuster.