Stats And You!

[Frein]

Going to take what I said on another forum.

STR is a support for ATKP in the same way VIT is support for DEF.

ATK_STR/VIT|DEF

Let me put it like this. Let's visualize this without a bunch of numbers. VIT acts as a wall. STR is a latter. Your STR needs to extend against or over that VIT wall for Attack to get to the other side and combat mob's defense effectively.

So, in terms of Mobs that have these high amounts of VIT, it becomes more about STR to push that attack through into a higher DMG threshold. On other mobs where you hit STR softcap on, it's more ATK dependent to hit consistently higher. This is the reason why STR builds out parse ATK focused builds on Ifrit or any other high level / High VIT mobs.

And you know this because...? Yeah, I didn't think so.

[Nayt]

And you know this because...? Yeah, I didn't think so.

It is, however, a popular theory.

People are testing and we'll get some stat results soon enough to cross-check

[BruceyBruceyBangBang]

And you know this because...? Yeah, I didn't think so.

I know this because I've tested it. Testing on Mobs of equal level and STR vs ATK builds on Ifrit. I am still gathering information as well, but this is how it works and what the data is showing. If you don't believe me, why don't you go out there and test it yourself?

I suggest this for everyone to do. This isn't a difficult thing to figure out. It can even be eye balled and I find it surprising that people just sit around on their butts waiting for people to figure crap out for them and when they come here to kindly give you the correct information you debunk it. As if you are out there doing the testing and arn't a loser of a player.

[Frein]

I know this because I've tested it. Testing on Mobs of equal level and STR vs ATK builds on Ifrit. I am still gathering information as well, but this is how it works and what the data is showing. If you don't believe me, why don't you go out there and test it yourself?

I suggest this for everyone to do. This isn't a difficult thing to figure out. It can even be eye balled and I find it surprising that people just sit around on their butts waiting for people to figure crap out for them and when they come here to kindly give you the correct information you debunk it. As if you are out there doing the testing and arn't a loser of a player.

Your tests prove nothing (other than that STR apparently outperforms ATK on Ifrit). You only assume your findings mean what you're proposing, but you could be completely off. You don't know what the damage formula looks like and you don't know the stats of the enemies you've fought, so it's a nice hypothesis, but by no means proven.

[BruceyBruceyBangBang]

Your tests prove nothing (other than that STR apparently outperforms ATK on Ifrit). You only assume your findings mean what you're proposing, but you could be completely off. You don't know what the damage formula looks like and you don't know the stats of the enemies you've fought, so it's a nice hypothesis, but by no means proven.

I have the data and when it's complete I'll share it. I was trying to get a rough explanation out before finalizing. Also, it is simple to find out the VIT of the mob when your STR starts to do little to no effect against it. You can do this by slowly lowering it til you see diminishing results.

This is simple stuff. You don't need to wait for developer confirmation when you have the capacity to test it yourself. It is incredibly surprising to me how they are not able to explain their own workings of STR and Attack Power, but the community can.

[Deus]

This is simple stuff. You don't need to wait for developer confirmation when you have the capacity to test it yourself. It is incredibly surprising to me how they are not able to explain their own workings of STR and Attack Power, but the community can.

While I GREATLY respect you for going out there and testing yourself (you are right that laziness is a factor), you need to understand that eyeballing effects and proving your conclusions to the community differ by a huge amount of effort, time, and complexity. You can make theories all day long but without data to back it up, it will always be useless. It will take hours and need to conform to thorough and rigorous precision and empirical process, or it will not be accepted. I have defined a lot of these guidelines here:
Section III: Empirical Testing Guidelines

We never got official answers on the damage formula for FFXI. Even 10 years later we STILL do not have a good understanding. Players of this game even now with this hardcore base are unable to understand FFXIV's stats system. With new players, especially this generation of competitive MMOs, they are not going to accept FFXIV's obscure stat system or attempt Forbidden materia craft. If Square Enix wants players to go the extra 10 miles exploring forbidden materia craft and contributing to the game's economy, they need to define the incentive to do so. Otherwise it will just be endless forum bickering over who is right and who is wrong with regards to weights in the damage formula, and people will continue to waste their time and money investing in their gear. Everybody loses. So devs, please work on getting a formula out there so we can get a better understanding how to compare all these parameters.

[BruceyBruceyBangBang]

While I GREATLY respect you for going out there and testing yourself (you are right that laziness is a factor), you need to understand that eyeballing effects and proving your conclusions to the community differ by a huge amount of effort, time, and complexity. You can make theories all day long but without data to back it up, it will always be useless. It will take hours and need to conform to thorough and rigorous precision and empirical process, or it will not be accepted. I have defined a lot of these guidelines here:
Section III: Empirical Testing Guidelines

We never got official answers on the damage formula for FFXI. Even 10 years later we STILL do not have a good understanding. Players of this game even now with this hardcore base are unable to understand FFXIV's stats system. With new players, especially this generation of competitive MMOs, they are not going to accept FFXIV's obscure stat system or attempt Forbidden materia craft. If Square Enix wants players to go the extra 10 miles exploring forbidden materia craft and contributing to the game's economy, they need to define the incentive to do so. Otherwise it will just be endless forum bickering over who is right and who is wrong with regards to weights in the damage formula, and people will continue to waste their time and money investing in their gear. Everybody loses. So devs, please work on getting a formula out there so we can get a better understanding how to compare all these parameters.

This is not my intention to say anyone in the community is wrong in this. I'm a little more testy when someone who more than likely will sit on their ass the whole time and not contribute to testing chimes in when they don't even have a place to do so.

Testing gets difficult for me in some ways because I get incredibly overwhelmed when I just deal with numbers. Which is kind of silly for a person who is dealing with something such as damage formulas. However, in my disability I've learned to take them [the numbers] and make visual objects of what I'm looking at in either scale or order and try to make sense of them in really odd ways. If that makes any sense to you, I don't know, but that's why I take so long. So, I actually get a lot of help mathematically through a friend of mine. In the past, I have been wrong here and there in my theories, but I have a strong feeling this is how it works.

I think maybe putting my theory out there for another to read and be curious about and test is a good thing. I certainly am not here to first anything. I'd just like people who are interested in how these stats work to be on track and know the proper times to use STR and the proper times to use ATK. If someone can beat me to it, that would be magnificent. Case closed and everyone is happy.

[Deus]

This is not my intention to say anyone in the community is wrong in this. I'm a little more testy when someone who more than likely will sit on their ass the whole time and not contribute to testing chimes in when they don't even have a place to do so.

Testing gets difficult for me in some ways because I get incredibly overwhelmed when I just deal with numbers. Which is kind of silly for a person who is dealing with something such as damage formulas. However, in my disability I've learned to take them [the numbers] and make visual objects of what I'm looking at in either scale or order and try to make sense of them in really odd ways. If that makes any sense to you, I don't know, but that's why I take so long. So, I actually get a lot of help mathematically through a friend of mine. In the past, I have been wrong here and there in my theories, but I have a strong feeling this is how it works.

I think maybe putting my theory out there for another to read and be curious about and test is a good thing. I certainly am not here to first anything. I'd just like people who are interested in how these stats work to be on track and know the proper times to use STR and the proper times to use ATK. If someone can beat me to it, that would be magnificent. Case closed and everyone is happy.

It seems like you do realize what you got yourself into (I know I didn't at first lol). In no way did I mean to discourage you from testing, rather I hope to save people from wasting effort by being up front with what the community would look for to accept test data in general. Of course we will look at what you have and make the most of it constructively. It really is a high bar to meet. The intensity of my message was directed more towards the Dev team, that they spare us from having to spend months of our personal time breaking down the algorithms. Say Matsui, got the funds to hire a W2 contractor?

[DardGhalawad]

While I GREATLY respect you for going out there and testing yourself (you are right that laziness is a factor), you need to understand that eyeballing effects and proving your conclusions to the community differ by a huge amount of effort, time, and complexity. You can make theories all day long but without data to back it up, it will always be useless. It will take hours and need to conform to thorough and rigorous precision and empirical process, or it will not be accepted. I have defined a lot of these guidelines here:
Section III: Empirical Testing Guidelines

We never got official answers on the damage formula for FFXI. Even 10 years later we STILL do not have a good understanding. Players of this game even now with this hardcore base are unable to understand FFXIV's stats system. With new players, especially this generation of competitive MMOs, they are not going to accept FFXIV's obscure stat system or attempt Forbidden materia craft. If Square Enix wants players to go the extra 10 miles exploring forbidden materia craft and contributing to the game's economy, they need to define the incentive to do so. Otherwise it will just be endless forum bickering over who is right and who is wrong with regards to weights in the damage formula, and people will continue to waste their time and money investing in their gear. Everybody loses. So devs, please work on getting a formula out there so we can get a better understanding how to compare all these parameters.

I have to agree in this point!