Yoshi P to Mr.Happy "Heal DPS is not mandatory and no expectation for Healer to DPS!"

[Elim]

The sad part about this thread is it not even 24 hours old and already 64 pages

Not sad. Funny.

I like these threads though, because I hope SE devs will (one day) read them and adjust healing so it's needed more often. It's pretty sucky that healing is so light in this game that these debates pop up so often.

[Alysrea]

I'm glad the Producer feels this way, no one can force a Healer to DPS and vote-kicking them for such reason should be punishable by the Game Masters, regardless of the "different play-styles" excuse!...

You do realize that vote-kicking for a different play-style reason goes both ways right!?... Both parties have equal rights and can use the same excuse to punish the "offenders"!...

That is why there should be a requirement to write a small report on the incidents explaining the reasons for vote-kicking anyone during a duty!...

Ultimately Healers are there to keep the party alive and burdening them even more in order to DPS should be their decision alone!...

Group/Team Activity, nothing should be up to the decision of one individual, Majority rule and that's how vote kicking works as well.
And yes vote to kick works both ways we are all aware of that and you are welcome to kick people who tell you that you HAVE to dps, you just need to get your other party members to agree and that's fine after all vote kicking is about exercising the groups right to not play with an individual based on acceptable reasons (differing playstyles being acceptable).

[Sorciechan]

Haah, pretty sure I said this in another thread, but, ok... Spoiler alert.
The CNJ was not about "dps like a BLM", Sylphie didn't want to learn how to tune into Nature to use her healing abilities because, like her mother, she thought doing so would hurt Nature. She was using her own essence to use healing and, since a mortal's essence isn't infinite, she was slowly killing herself. Heck, if she decided to use the offensive skills, if she wasn't learning to draw power from Nature, the result would be same. Actually, she'd probably die faster, considering how quick is it to throw some of those spells.

Also, those solo plays...the npcs aren't so strong that they can carry you through each one of them. If you weren't doing what the storyline was hinting for you to do (sometimes even flat out instructing you to do) you'd most likely fail in some way. We playin the same game here?

[IllyriaKnotfred]

I'm glad the Producer feels this way, no one can force a Healer to DPS and vote-kicking them for such reason should be punishable by the Game Masters, regardless of the "different play-styles" excuse!...

You do realize that vote-kicking for a different play-style reason goes both ways right!?... Both parties have equal rights and can use the same excuse to punish the "offenders"!...

That is why there should be a requirement to write a small report on the incidents explaining the reasons for vote-kicking anyone during a duty!...

Ultimately Healers are there to keep the party alive and burdening them even more in order to DPS should be their decision alone!...

No. /10char

[TamurilRains]

Logic

A person who uses logic and gets it! Have a like!

[Ama_Hamada]

It's interesting that some keep thinking that those endlessly fighting about "WHM being bad" or this kind of minutiae on forum and social media are any representation of the "community."The community is made by hundreds of thousands of players, the vast majority of which never reads forums or reddit, care only if their job is enjoyable, and can't care one bit about a bunch of people in a hellhole of a forum bickering about tooltips that aren't even final.

You are right, however wrong on what you are implying with why people fight over those tooltips. We all know it is not final that is why we are commenting it here to give them something to think about.


Does yoshi P even understand he is provoking more of this?:

Its prob more common then you think, my most recent example is not too long ago that my friend in The Great Gubal Library did, I might of posted it here before.. lets see... was it during that relic a thon day?

yep, here it is:


Another one that was a bit more trolly, my friend was doing her normal thing in one of the older 60 experts.. 3 or 4 patches ago? anyways after like 3rd pull the tank comments stop spaming flash. Both my friends where confused as af thinking the tank was talking to himself. Then after a pull later he started to complain about her using holy and cleric stance. and for more fun, a different friend shown me these found online:


(incase second too hard to read):
https://i.redd.it/oyn9aqvudq1z.png

I don't believe you for a second. You'd be finished a run in the time you'd be waiting even if the healer wasn't dpsing.

I would do the same thing, I rather do other things while waiting for someone that is going to put in the same amount of effort I do as SMN (or simply queue the DPS healer thing myself)

I really do not understand why people sit here saying healers shouldn't have to worry about DPS, so you are advocating a SCH does auto follow the tank and afk in low level dungeons? Because that is what this producer is supporting with the opening of this Pandora's box. Some people want people to put in equal effort in the party, not this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBgM...youtu.be&t=557

Can you honestly say that while looking at what they've shown use with WHM so far (even with the Cure II Lily buff)?
The Devs don't seem to understand their own game or how it is actually played (the meta), just how they intended it to be played.

He is talking about himself, he is the leader of the out of touch parade.

K.

If you actually check people's information, those who advocate healer DPS tend to either be healers themselves, or at least have healers leveled. You can keep thinking that though.

Yep, this person does not understand how I got harassed, and my friend as well, for using cleric stance despite people dying. I was misplaced blame for a wipe once because a tank over pulled while a BLM refused to AoE rotation. This person also had the audacity to flip my post and put words in my mouth when I was just explaining the run ins I had.

Low level DF a SCH can auto follow the tank and afk, I suppose that is not kick worthy because no one died?

I don't think you even have to voice it. You can say nothing and start the vote kick and if one other person agrees, they will get kicked and it would still remain a valid use. You don't have to state your reason in chat. Honestly, it is probably better to remain silent in chat when doing this.



Better hope that the fourth person in the party doesn't agree with the kick. I'm pretty sure you only need two people to agree (the initiator included) to the kick in a dungeon.

Yep its 2/4, I seen a healer kicked just because they said "You overkilled that boss with the melee LB, it would been better spent on the next pull with caster lb"

So a healer is expected to not only heal the DPS who stand in crap they shouldn't be standing in, but also to deal damage in order to make up for the lack of DPS those people are essentially not producing?

I do it all the time though, and my friend.

An AST using shields outhealing a whm while out dpsing 2 DPS and a tank where the MT and DPS taken too much damage? It is def possible to do. Giving healers a lazy pass for being healers is just insane concept to me.

I don't think this is a case of him being out of touch (if anything, the development team made it easier for healers to DPS, therefore supporting Healer DPS; not to mention that statement made in the Hall of Novice). This is probably more of a neutral stance he has to take due to his position, sort of like his stance with parsers. He cannot publicly support the use of parsers, but it doesn't seem like he is personally against them, maybe even personally supportive of them. He actually does seem to understand how important parsers are to the raiding community, he just can't officially support them. He just can't officially support one play style over another.



On a completely unrelated note, I just noticed all of my silver medals turning into one gold medal! Yay!

That makes sense but look at all the trouble it stirred up =/

By your logic I'm a DPS player because I happen to have all but two of the DPS jobs leveled. Which would be wrong, of course. I'm a healer, who subs tank. DPS jobs are only leveled for the content completion (dem 60s doe) and so that I can run as one of them in casual content when I get the urge to do some actual deeps (something that healing jobs can't do).

Same applies to the people in this thread.

Just because you have healer jobs leveled, that doesn't make you a healer. Anyone who advocates healer dps being mandatory is no healer, period. You might mostly play on healer jobs, but you're a DPS player because you can't think of anything other than min/maxing DPS and shoving your demands on others.

Any healer thinks they need to 100% heal 24/7 in a DF is a bad healer, period. A bad healer is one that does not learn when to heal and when not to heal, a bad healer is not adjusting, a bad healer is having this mentality of "I am a healer not a DPS so I do not have to put in effort everyone else does"



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBgM...youtu.be&t=557

also why in the hell did this thread pass this one:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...s-now-./page49

in 12~!!!!!!! HOURS?!!?!?!?!?!

Thank you for this response. Sometimes it is hard not to see red with all of the ridiculous statements flying around here on the OF, but I feel like this is an extremely reasonable and inoffensive thing to say.

I wish more people understood that what the majority of players want is for their teammates to try. I 100% get that life happens. I have definitely let people die as a healer due to stupid stuff happening, and I just apologize and continue to do my best from that point onward.

Basically, if I am in a party with a healer and I see them hop into Cleric Stance even just occasionally, I will be silently grateful that they are at least putting forth an effort.

Yep to try, I do not expect people be good as me or my friends, but there is no reason to take a SCh in sasha, afk follow the tank and for that to be acceptable because yoshi-p says healer DPS is not required. Though keep in mind for sasha you need to input the following as SCH to clear the run:

/follow the tank

back off from follow when you get to cat boss (because paralyze blocks your follow)

When that boss dies, go back on follow and watch netflix/ tetris online/ play with your iphone, etc

Why am I not surprised that you can't comprehend such a simple concept.

Why can't you understand a simple concept? You read the story on the first page of this thread? A shield healer (AST) while giving out buffs, was able to out dps 2 DPS, a tank, and a pure regen healer, the pure regen healer was out dps by a range lb, while the shield healer outhealed this person as well. People where taking more then needed damage as well, standing in aoes, etc.

What are you even trying to say?

Edit inc - hint enter early whoops

Why even bother:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ungeon-content
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ine-Earth-Time
literally clueless. you try to explain something how something works and the reply is:

Not actually how that works, otherwise I could just go in and change my computer's clock and have the resets happen whenever I wanted.

So when you answer a question they have, and answer it correctly they state "that is not how it works"

Is your name attached to those quotes? No? I wonder why that is...




You are factually wrong, period. Like, there isn't even a debate to be had here.


I know common sense is a rare trait on the internet, but please, at least try to have some.

You are the one that is wrong! Why can't you accept how things really work? same with your reset question.

Overwatch would be a VERY poor example. Overwatch is a competitive pvp game. They have to do both with that character or you'll likely lose the match.

The only thing poor here is your post, it is the same situation.

Refer to the post literally right before yours.

Why are you spaming showing you do not understand facts?

I hope both the pot and the kettle are dealing damage too! XD

You know, I am starting to think all these pure healer people are the ones that can't DPS and lead to wipes when they do. Why else would they be toxic to healers that can DPS and heal and while DPSing and heal, manage to out heal them as well? I never thought I see the day where a sheild using ast would out DPS- 2 dps, a tank and the co healer while outhealing the cohealer who had regens.

Want to see that in action?
https://youtu.be/pZemm35fqYA?t=52
HEY just like this thread in general

Haven't read any of the thread yet, but I will go back and read it.


Lazy player argument.

Every player should try and spend every gcd on a skill useful for the group.


The content design in this game doesn't require healing fulltime, there will be healing downtime.



Keeping your party safe should be a very high priority for a healer.
But, after that there's nothing else to do but spend those gcd's on damage.

If we compare healers and other classes...
A healer who only has to heal every 6~10 seconds and refuses to do damage in the meantime is equivalanet to another class using a skill every 3rd or 4th gcd.

This is not parity.
This is laziness.




A quote on that subject.

Can't use Assize as a pure healer, it does damage

I just realized the drama unfolding with this kitti person. This is super entertaining. :x

People get so salty when it comes to healer DPS. I'll never understand why. Those in the pro-healer DPS camp just support your growth and progress as a player. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Either way though. /popcorn

Because they are clueless while insulting those that are trying to be reasonable?

A "modicum of effort" has different definitions for different people in different circumstances. What can be easy as pie for me, can be difficult for others. I don't go out of my way to assume that the one I have in front of me has the experience, hand-eye coordination, physical ability or simply the energy to do more than his job. And most content in this game is designed so that if everyone does "his job" the party will be successful.

If someone finds pressing one button a minute difficult they should not be playing this game. People are simply asking for effort, not this "I am not dpsing because yoshi -p said it is not required"

Oh please, everything in this game is going to have some sort of lore explanation for its existence. Even glamour does. I would most certainly not take that as the game telling healers to dps.

And what solo content are you even speaking of? Cause the solo I'm speaking should obviously be open world, fates, hunts, and leveling in general. I assume you mean class quests but, those are more to teach you how to use your spells in general than to teach a role. Healer class quests are bad in that regard anyway as they usually have someone else healing instead.

Funny, Healers can't solo full credit hunts when DPS can. Clearly the game design is DPS your way though everything.

I'm glad the Producer feels this way, no one can force a Healer to DPS and vote-kicking them for such reason should be punishable by the Game Masters, regardless of the "different play-styles" excuse!...

You do realize that vote-kicking for a different play-style reason goes both ways right!?... Both parties have equal rights and can use the same excuse to punish the "offenders"!...

That is why there should be a requirement to write a small report on the incidents explaining the reasons for vote-kicking anyone during a duty!...

Ultimately Healers are there to keep the party alive and burdening them even more in order to DPS should be their decision alone!...

dat 1 APM though...

Because I want to watch netflix while my eos does everything in the lower level dungeons and just have someone on follow, dur. /s

But but that is what yoshi-p said the game is deigned for!! are you sure about that /s?
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=.= the joy of strict daily post limits.

[Khankra]

Read the first 2 pages of this thread, and then the last 2.

The only thought i had was oh well they had the same up and down arguing for the last 60 pages damn they must be bored as hell.

[HappyHubris]

No, The first two lines are responding to you, since you seem to think you know what the "community" thinks and feels.

Read my post again. I'm not speaking on behalf of "The Community" (which doesn't exist in a monolithic way, anyways). I'm saying that game design A (not enough incoming damage) naturally leads to player expectation B (healers should use all those unused GCDs to contribute damage). If the Devs don't want B, they should remedy A (by keeping healers busy with healing).

Players will always look to optimize gameplay contributions (especially for other people ). If you want to allow people to tank or heal without being expected to contribute DPS, keep them busy with tank mitigation/threat and healing/buffing.

[HappyHubris]

Read the first 2 pages of this thread, and then the last 2.

The only thought i had was oh well they had the same up and down arguing for the last 60 pages damn they must be bored as hell.

Dude, someone is wrong on the internet (!!).

[Arkdra]

for a different play-style reason goes both ways right!?... Both parties have equal rights and can use the same excuse to punish the "offenders"!...

If I ask a slow-pulling tank to please pull more and they say no and another party membe backs them up, I will save them the effort of vote-kicking and leave on my own.