We're all DDs now >.>

[Pells]

...If you absolutely do not have downtime in between heals, you're being carried...

The opposite. If a healer has no downtime, they're doing the carrying.

[Lambdafish]

Let us pass all DPS checks hitting 1 button every minute then. Fair is fair, I expect healers to put in effort like tanks and DPS. Why do healers get special treatment in doing much less effort and encouraged by the producer?

The lowest common denominator is a paying customer that could easily go to other games, Yoshi Ps answer is business focused, not design focused

The opposite. If a healer has no downtime, they're doing the carrying.

It could be either tbh, no healer downtime means there is a problem, whether it is the healer or another pt member is a case by case basis

[VeliusVire]

I often see a lot of Pure Healers constantly asking for Higher Tuned Damage outside of Raid content, and my question is why? If you can't heal Savage Raids, why on earth would you want that kind of healing placed in your Roulettes? Or your 24-Man Raids? You're hurting only yourselves. This isn't meant to be condescending, it's a legitimate concern, because then you're going to run into MP Management issues because you're not used to that kind of healing to begin with. Even then, Healers who DPS will still find a way to do it, so that actually doesn't resolve anything. Either you tune the damage so high that only REALLY GOOD Healers can deal with it, thus excluding those that can't OR You tune the damage higher than usual, needing constant healing, but the Good Healers will simply still set themselves apart from the rest. I'm just not seeing what people want, it's a difference in playstyle, no matter how you change the system, each person will always find a way to play how they want.

[Katryn]

Yoshi P is in a no win situation. Who should he listen to? The hardcore? The casuals? Investors? His own gut / vision for the game? No matter what he / the dev team does 'someone' is going to be dissatisfied.

The truth is, generally, there is at least -some- time that a healer can be dpsing. Different people do play at different levels and with different challenges, but there is no reason for people to be doing the Manderville while the rest of the party is fighting trash or a boss. That's just rude.

I don't necessarily get or agree with the 'every 2.5 second' thing for -any- character, since there are times when you need to dodge crap, you'll misclick, the cat will jump in your lap or--you know--life stuff will inevitably happen. Shouldn't be the -norm-, but it is the -truth-.

Ultimately, though, I think we are most responsible for our own performance / contribution to the groups we join. We can inform or kick people who do not meet the status quo, but we cannot make them want to change. The desire for improvement and to be part of a team must be self motivated.

[Erys]

I'll be brief. A healer not dpsing is as bad and lazy as a tank not using any cds, a dps not emergency tanking or using defensive cds/autohealing. It's not a matter of "Why if I'm a healer do I have to do the DDs job?", it's a matter of playing FOR THE TEAM.

Practical example. Me, with my static, in a11s. OT dies before the shared tankbuster. What do I do? Look at the party wipe? Nope, go in, pop mantra, sacrifice myself and I made the tank get healed back easier; after that, I get ressed and second wind-bloodbath my ass, while my ninja goads me. Sure my mantra is not as good as a monk's, but I'm contributing with healing, "tanking" and dpsing. This doesn't make me an exceptional player, it makes me a decent TEAMPLAYER.

If you are healing a dungeon and not throwing holy/gravity/dots in, you are making your dps' work harder. Because they will starvate on tp from aoe (or spend far more damage cds) and your tank will end up having to use more cooldowns, making your work harder in the end, which makes dds' work harder, which makes tank... you get the idea, you are hurting the TEAM, not someone's ego.

[Ama_Hamada]

Here is another story that happened today (posted a summery in the horrible DF thread)

So here was my friend on ast, noticed whm in party so used the buff that puts shields on the heals. She noticed right away she needed to heal more then what is usually needed and adjusted but with extra stress and pressing buttons a lot faster, as she tried to keep aoe balance on people while doing the extra healingand while doing DPS still. She did not like how the tanks was handling titan (and got cleaved a few times, while the tank did not migrate damage as much she liked.) So she was pretty much over stressed and even with all this, she outhealed the WHM with SHIELDS (not supposed to happen, regen healers tend to place top) while completely outclassing the other healer in DPS WHILE STILL KEEPING cards up AND! doing more DPS then some DPS. This is why people call heal only healers lazy. She was able not only to recognize all this during the moment but ended up giving a com to the highest DPS (before she was given a meter from someone else along with the healing meter, she com the highest dps) while suspecting she was healing much more then needed and MIGHT of did more healing then a regen based healing. She did not know the exact numbers, that would be impossible to do, but she was observant enough to tell who the highest DPS was, the fact the co healer was not doing much, and keeping tabs how the MT acted.

Saying you need to violate the tos to tell who has the highest DPS is a complete lie. You just can't recognize if everyone is good or if everyone is bad, and if everyone is good, there is no point in caring about the numbers anyway.

For that titen today the DPS went:
BRD>BRD>DRK> the shield using AST that was working overtime in healing> the second DRK> a 3rd BRD> the SMN that kept dying > LB> the WHM who got out healed by the sheild using AST.

[TaranTatsuuchi]

I'll be brief. A healer not dpsing is as bad and lazy as a tank not using any cds, a dps not emergency tanking or using defensive cds/autohealing. It's not a matter of "Why if I'm a healer do I have to do the DDs job?", it's a matter of playing FOR THE TEAM.
....

Every player should endeavor to attempt to use every gcd on a useful action to the group.
It's understandable that sometimes mechanics happen.


A healer who only needs to heal every 6~10 seconds, and refuses to dps is equivalent to a dps player using an offensive skill every 3rd or 4th gcd...

[Synestra]

People need to start calling DPS out on their bs. It doesnt mean youre gonna get banned for parsing. Just gotta be a bit smart about how you do it.

I know a person who usually says "you do low deeps and i know that because i watched your skill animations and they were all over the place" or something like that.

[Lambdafish]

I know a person who usually says "you do low deeps and i know that because i watched your skill animations and they were all over the place" or something like that.

or "You haven't cast a single fire IV" / "Use your goddamn songs". People already do call DPS out on their BS.

[missybee]

Snip!

Thank you for this response. Sometimes it is hard not to see red with all of the ridiculous statements flying around here on the OF, but I feel like this is an extremely reasonable and inoffensive thing to say.

I wish more people understood that what the majority of players want is for their teammates to try. I 100% get that life happens. I have definitely let people die as a healer due to stupid stuff happening, and I just apologize and continue to do my best from that point onward.

Basically, if I am in a party with a healer and I see them hop into Cleric Stance even just occasionally, I will be silently grateful that they are at least putting forth an effort.