Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

[Nyghtmarerobu]

WHM has a lot more problems than just meta and lilies/confessions. Remember, healers and tanks were supposed to get focused on balance since we weren't getting new jobs to play. Does this seem balanced to you? Yoshi P also said we were supposed to be encouraged and get encouraging content. Does this seem encouraging at all to you?

We have no idea what the content is besides what has been shown, and labeled. dungeouns, raid, 24man. Is it balanced? No its not, but this is the thing, whm's want to be back on top, putting them on top isn't balance either.

- 3 less abilities, the most abilities that get consolidated of the healers (4), 2 skills we will never use 50+ (Repose, Fluid Aura). While SCH and AST in addition to having more abilities, have 8 additional effects/abilities available to them via cards and faeries that WHMs don't. That's a pretty big gap. Do you remember how often SMNs have begged for more egis? Do you remember Yoshi's reason for not giving it to them? That's right... similar number of abilities... but that doesn't seem to apply to us.

And yet, they had the most useful skills.. (protect, esuna). These skills had to be shared, otherwise we go back to people complaining about skill bloat all over again. These had to be shared, or everyone would have to have a whm in the party. Also point out that Cards are random, and while they have various different effects, you do not always get the card you need at the time you need it, where do you think the spire meme came from? Side note, repose? Really? did anyone use this outside of PvP? Fluid Aura will be missed, r.i.p 2017.

- A much less friendly low level experience with the loss of stoneskin and having to juggle cross-role abilities that new players may not even know they can change or have access to.

I'm not sure what you're trying to convey here. Loss of stoneskin is prolly the wost thing, but the rest of this comment elludes me. I'd like to think people aren't that stupid to not know they have cross-role skills.

- No mitigation abilities in job until 66 and it costs a lily, is casted on one person, and consumes all lilies on a 60 sec cooldown. SCHs get Adloquium, Succor, Sacred Soil; ASTs Bole and Noct Sect for levels 50 and under.

And if you got something similar to them at around the same level, they are, "homogenizing" all the jobs. Theres no pleasing anyone around here. I stand by the loss of stoneskin in my previous sentence, but thats it.

- Contributes the most job abilities to the cross-role system. And, with point 1, gets nothing to fill in the gaps they left.

Not sure what to say about this, they had the most useful skills, and leaving those to whm's only would just skew what you guys are complaining about the other way, and instead this thread would be about sch and ast with no protect.

Look, I'm not saying any of the hate is warranted, because like I've said previously, on paper in this little bitty bubble of info we have right now, it looks bad. The game isn't out yet, and while I agree feedback needs to be given, why don't we wait an reserve a bit of judgment until the game is actually released.

[javid]

...

It's it funny how you just admitted that the ppl dying are "baddies" yet you found some way to blame the WHM for not holding their hands thru content??? Secondly Seldom are their multiple aoe dmg mech that would erase 100% of a weaken person's hp. YOu might get one at most within the 1min weakness window but you wont get 2 100% HP erasing AOE in 1 min time (outside of raid). Thirdly, notice your scenario ONLY exist when you have 2 WHM's and a ton of baddies dying.....hardly a reason to tune the whole game around.

[CrazyCapnMorgan]

The only way youll get a system of that strength is to balance it like AST cards and remove player choice from the outcome. Basically system randomly chooses which perk your getting. What your asking for is closer to if we hand picked a card and thehand picked its modifier then used it. To balance off that level of controllable power, its strength has to be reduced. Probably also why the currently known iteration of Chain Strategem is multiplicative as opposed to additive, if it was additive id probably go down to 5-10% at best. Also its limited by being single target, which even if it was additive, would still be weaker than DRGs Battle Litany because of it. Albiet single target nature doesnt affect its value on boss fights.

Well, if AST and SCH get offensive CDs, it can't hurt for WHM to get some good defensive ones, can it?

[Trine]

The current version of White Mage going into Stormblood is uninspired, the design was good but compared to AST and SCH we are, and will remain, miles behind. The public build for 4.0 has no viable DPS, 1 shield ability, and the overheal-focused lily proc system. Nobody asked for this for this sort of exaggerated healing proc system. Our best new ability, Thin Air, would have been negligible by 3.5. Starting with the Holy nerfs in 3.0 it's been downhill for us White Mage players.

Why didn't we get any raid utility and why did some of our most characteristic abilities get removed? Why do we still have repose? Stoneskin did something very tangible (although not potent enough) but now it's gone? Fluid Aura had its damage removed? Come on, that was free damage and I used it every 30 seconds. Knockback effect is simply annoying and has no place in the game. Compared to the utility SCH and AST have, WHM is just weight—the main question is "why wouldn't you take The Balance".

A note on WHM lore too: obviously, we don't know where the story is going but the Heavensward White Mage job story was completely boring, badly written, and predictable. It felt as though it had been patched together in 15 minutes. It lacked any compelling details, interesting new characters, or interconnection to Heavensward. Don't let this become a trend, please listen to the community and make one of Final Fantasy's most iconic jobs a gameplay experience to remember. Because right now, we pale in comparison to everything. I'll never forget how crucial my White Mage was to my first Final Fantasy 3 playthrough, or Yuna in Final Fantasy 10—we're very far from that presently.

[OcieKo]

Well, if AST and SCH get offensive CDs, it can't hurt for WHM to get some good defensive ones, can it?

I believed someone mentioned an ability idea that turns a hard hit into a moderate dot, good idea, can easily be kept unique/unnecessary but still extremely nice. To be honest Id like it, turn that 30k tank buster into a 3-6k dot per tick. And still lets you be the throughput dominating healer, which to be honest you still are, and so far Ive seen nothing to say otherwise. Nothing logical anyways.

The current version of White Mage going into Stormblood is uninspired, the design was good but compared to AST and SCH we are, and will remain, miles behind. The public build for 4.0 has no viable DPS, 1 shield ability, and the overheal-focused lily proc system. Nobody asked for this for this sort of exaggerated healing proc system. Our best new ability, Thin Air, would have been negligible by 3.5. Starting with the Holy nerfs in 3.0 it's been downhill for us White Mage players.

Why didn't we get any raid utility and why did some of our most characteristic abilities get removed? Why do we still have repose? Stoneskin did something very tangible (although not potent enough) but now it's gone? Fluid Aura had its damage removed? Come on, that was free damage and I used it every 30 seconds. Knockback effect is simply annoying and has no place in the game. Compared to the utility SCH and AST have, WHM is just weight—the main question is "why wouldn't you take The Balance".

Overhealing is mostly a choice, focusing on regens and AOEs when theyre not needed is still deliberate overhealing, just because its essier doesn't make it better. Thin Air works on everything, maybe if you complain enough theyll give -50% damage potency on it so you can feel more balanced.
Fluid Aura damage loss, people please stop trying to pull the woe is us act here, EVERYONE got hit by this wave if changes, the amount of native CC is almost halved and all but a select few have lost their DMG component.
Repose, honestly looking at the general changes to CC abilities in 4.0, hold out until mechanics can be messed with to call this worthless. Without having to stupidly consider CC abilities as being used just for DMG the developer ability to build their use in me hanics goes way up. Honestly the worthlessness of CC in general in FFXIV up to this point has been weird. Its plausible these 2 were in response to an attempt to rectify this.

[Trine]

Divine Bension is right on, this is the type of thing we need. I think the Stormblood kit was moving in the right direction with Assize and Tetra but we needed competitive raid utility too in the wake of AST's cards.

There needs to be better DPS options for WHM, Stone spam, and Aero resetting looks to be the plan for 5.0. White Mage's #1 priority should NOT be damage but it's completely unfair to relegate us to this place where we can't even come close to the DPS of SCH and AST. There's no way that there is enough development time to address all the concerns the community is having, but we've been discussing the problems with the job for more than 2 years. These changes will make White Mage players at 70 a downright detriment to the raid.

[OcieKo]

Divine Bension is right on, this is the type of thing we need. I think the Stormblood kit was moving in the right direction with Assize and Tetra but we needed competitive raid utility too in the wake of AST's cards.

There needs to be better DPS options for WHM, Stone spam, and Aero resetting looks to be the plan for 5.0. White Mage's #1 priority should NOT be damage but it's completely unfair to relegate us to this place where we can't even come close to the DPS of SCH and AST. There's no way that there is enough development time to address all the concerns the community is having, but we've been discussing the problems with the job for more than 2 years. These changes will make White Mage players at 70 a downright detriment to the raid.

Stone = Malefic = Boil
Aero = Combust = Boil
Aero 3 = X = X (i think SCHs lost their comparable, not 100% sure whats up with Miasma 2)
Holy = Gravity = X

Everything else is OGCD not spammable, you guys probably overtook SCH as the best DPS healer, hell AST might have pulled ahead of them as well, and thats sad cause our personal DPS was bad. Also I think SCH got the short end of the stick on OGCD DMG as well now. Tho you are no longer the only one who can heal and damage in one click (technically still true Star bombing may req 2 clicks but not the point). But you are definitely the best equipped to spam DPS given you have the only decidedly native personal DPS buff out of the healers, as Thin Air can be used solely on DPS if one wishes.

[Jxnibbles]

Yet the scenario does exist does it not Javid? Players in DF will die obviously. Who will they Blame? Us obviously its DF.

Why is it In every expansion Whm seem to get hit?
Since 2.0 we had the most nerfs.
-Our Holy got nerfed twice, PoM got nerfed, Fluid Aura nerfed.
With our abilities being moved to cross role we are forced to take very specific abilities back just to get some utility.

-We also seem to lose 10% healing potency on Regen, Med II, Med, and Cure III with our Divine Seal being moved and replaced by a 20% one. We lost ProShell, We are losing SS, We lost other traits.
In SB the Lillies are lackluster, Our new "SS" is wasting 3 Lillies, How lackluster Pienary seems to be.

-Yet the only changes we are told are 100% on Cure II proc, or potency increased on Cure and a Benediction 2 minute buff. "WOW IMPRESSIVE"
Now even the Role System we need to take back Swiftcast, Protect, Lucid Dreaming, Esuna, Largesse. We have the most limited options for this role. We also have the lowest number of abilities as well.

This expansion is supposed to be "Balance" and the reason why we didn't get another Tank or Healer. Yet Whm got the short stick again.
Remember the playerbase who were "OverReacting" to War 2.0, Monk, Astro 3.0, Bard and Mch 3.0, and Paladin 3.x series.

We want Utility Not Spear. We don't want Buffs to Cure I and Cure II again. Stop Nerfing us.

[Ceroes]

This is to Assize what Quick Nock is to Wide Volley. I'd enjoy if the effects of this were taken and distributed into the kit - like, Assize gaining potency per lilly.

Yeah I can see the comparison with Quick Nock to Wide volley as a Bard myself. But there is a big difference both of the skills Assize and my Purifying waters are not on GCD. This makes a big difference as I would be using both Quick Nock and Wide Volley if even one of them were off the GCD. To be Honest I wanted to think of a direct attack like my version of Faith for the water element and call it Torrent but Assize is so awesome and this version of it would work well for solo play and that with all the current cuts is going to be hurting. Especially when you consider we only have Stone IV, Aero II to really do damage without killing our MP and we need more skills to make the normal grind more entertaining hence Hope and Purifying Waters.

[Ceroes]

Bit much for both the damage and the buff, but not bad. It'd be cool as a debuff/buff thing.

Hope may not be necessary, but we'll see.

Enhanced Raise II... don't think it should be both full HP/no weakness. CD that cleanses Weakness would be excellent and add incredibly rare utility.

The only thing I calculated with the damage was to make sure using it as a buff in party play outweighs its use as an attack, so those could be changed.

Hope I wanted to make it something that we currently don't have and a bandage for the loss of Stoneskin.

My main concern with the Enhanced Raise II trait was that WHM raise without weakness.