Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

[Levy9]

http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/pr/blog/

^ New Dev blog on WHM PvP. As someone who prefers PvP to Raiding as an MMO endgame activity, I can say that a 50% oGCD reduction would theoretically be really strong in that environment. In PvP, sharp damage spikes are frequent, not scripted and are generally single target. Healing is more reactive and clutch here. You don't always know when the burst is coming. It looks like basic AoE healing won't be available for healers altogether. An oGCD and Adrenaline Rush look to be the only options. Makes me wonder what the other healers got as their nine class actions and whether the AST card abilities will be consolidated into a combo button somehow. Also, no more shroud on top of Mana Draw in PvP. Mana draw only, so Assize may be more valuable here.

On a side note, one of the reasons why my subscriptions were so sporadic was the lack of attention given to PvP as an endgame choice in ffxiv, so kudos to SE for finally giving PvP it's due.

[Cynfael]

I feel like my biggest issue with it personally is that job identity that you brought up. If we leave aside mechanics for a moment, I'm not really sure where it makes me feel more like a White Mage.

I'm with you there.

I enjoy a good number crunch, but at the end of the day, the primary consideration is fun. Naturally the Job has to be effective since players generally don't find unreasonable struggle and failure to be fun, but I think the negative sentiment surrounding Lilies and Confession stacks would be less intense if they were perceived as remotely entertaining or as making WHM more unique.

The only healer that isn't suffering a bit of malaise right now is AST, and it's not only because their numbers look absurd; their new skills look fun and useful, and they build on the AST's themes of cards and things celestial. WHM, as of the same build, was slated to receive entirely recycled and/or poorly planned mechanics. SCH, while not as widely panned as WHM here, is looking pretty bland as well with AST shields looking to be definitively stronger and new SCH mechanics looking fairly bland. Even if Chain Strategem works additively, it will be a math skill that is decidedly more efficient than it is actually fun to use.

[KisaiTenshi]

Greetings!

First off, thank you all for the continued feedback regarding the upcoming changes to white mage in Patch 4.0. We've been reading through it all and sharing it with the team.

As some have already pointed out, Yoshida recently made a comment about how casting Cure II will now grant a lily 100% of the time. The information and data revealed during the recent media tour was from a build made in late April, and various actions have been modified since then. While we continue to collect and relay your valuable feedback to the dev. team, we ask you to keep that in mind and hang tight a bit longer, until the finalized information is revealed in the patch notes.

10 more days till the early access!

Well that addresses my main concern with the RNGesus aspect of the Lilies. I doubt the raiders will be happy since they claim to only ever use cure II once per duty.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

If we ask what makes White Mage, then we're looking for powerful white magic spells and regen effects, something that's been core to the White Mage experience from Day 1. I absolutely agree that Lillies as they are currently don't fit that fantasy very well.

100% agree with you, and I think a lot of us in this thread feels the same.
CD reduction, in itself, is a decent mechanic. But it's nothing defining at all. We were looking for the lily system to give us a sense of identity as well as help us catch up to the other healers in raid synergy.

These changes did... neither of these.

It's really strange because SE specifically said they wanted to better realize the role of a pure healer. None of these changes even attempt to capture this vision.

[Cynfael]

Well that addresses my main concern with the RNGesus aspect of the Lilies. I doubt the raiders will be happy since they claim to only ever use cure II once per duty.

You could at least pretend to have read the other posts in this thread.

[OcieKo]

If we ask what makes White Mage, then we're looking for powerful white magic spells and regen effects, something that's been core to the White Mage experience from Day 1. I absolutely agree that Lillies as they are currently don't fit that fantasy very well.

And here I believed WHM was about always having a healing based solution to any incoming damage problem, no matter how random or out of place it felt. Kind of like how PLD was about having a damage reducing defense solution to any incoming damage problem, which with magic blocking, pretty much fullfills that. WHM has very natural and soothing element types, PLD has a shield and holy spells. I dont see WHMs cursing things into darkness or PLDs getting a beheading finisher yet, so far feels like what one wants to do with them so far.

Can someone explain to me why the trend seems to be WHMs saying we hate having to use GCD skills, but our job is based on GCD skills, and we want our OGCDs more, as long as we dont have to use GCD skills our job is based on?
Honestly, I dont see a problem with Cure III, Medica I, and Medica II (initial heal only) have the same lily/confession proc rate as Cure I as long as the max amount per cast was capped beneath possible targets, i.e. one Lily per cast 20% chance per target (honestly chance would probably have to be 10% for Medicas to be below the target count threshold in full parties). And maybe up to 2-3 confession stacks on an equal number affected party members (basically you could get 1 stack on 2-3 people per cast, a chance on all 8 would be rediculously broken, in which case Plenary Indulgence's CD would have to be lengthened).

Also with all the bad press Repose gets for being kept in these toolkit updates, I get the feeling its value may be going up in the 4.X series. Why? Because DMG was removed from CCs in general and CC was made more readily available to everyone, which makes me wonder if this was a move so CC could actually be put into boss encounters, which currently is hard to do because SOOO many people blow em on CD just for the DMG. Who doesn't remember mobs/bosses that could be stunned or silenced out of me hs being CC immune by the time the mechs started casting? If you said you don't remember this, you probably have never done content without crazy phase pushing being the norm.

[Seraphyna]

Oh, please. If you are paying attention, and not just hitting buttons automatically, you can manage your overhealing, hate, and mana.

Oh you mean what SE is requesting we do to generate lillies? Cast Cure for a 20% proc or Cure II for 100%. Since as of right now these are the ONLY ways to generate lillies, you better bet your ass there will be tons of overhealing and hate pulling. Oh look, someone died. No more Stoneskin so you better get those lillies fast. Cure 2 x 3. Major incoming damage one the tank. Cure 2 x 3 again.

I'm not going to pull the "you're not even 60 Whm" but if you don't think this system is severely flawed, you're a fool.

[Cynfael]

And here I believed WHM was about always having a healing based solution to any incoming damage problem, no matter how random or out of place it felt. Kind of like how PLD was about having a damage reducing defense solution to any incoming damage problem, which with magic blocking, pretty much fullfills that. WHM has very natural and soothing element types, PLD has a shield and holy spells. I dont see WHMs cursing things into darkness or PLDs getting a beheading finisher yet, so far feels like what one wants to do with them so far.

WHM's arguable problem isn't that its actions don't fit the Job; it's that the previously unique function and feel of the Job have been steadily eroded since 2.x, and the first info on 4.0 doesn't do much to reassure players that WHM will be taking steps towards reclaiming a more defined identity among the healers.

...and it doesn't help that the Lily system as presented thus far is utterly lackluster.

[Saraphin]

snippy snip to even retaliate against quoted comment!

Don't forget! Thin Air + Presence of Mind + I AM NOW THE HOLY BOMB!...and now Assize (both DPS and HEAL Aggro).

just going tocomment this and point out that...there will be MORE aggro than ever done by WHMs. We're going to be some of the Squishiest tanks in the world.

[Levy9]

I'm with you there.

I enjoy a good number crunch, but at the end of the day, the primary consideration is fun. Naturally the Job has to be effective since players generally don't find unreasonable struggle and failure to be fun, but I think the negative sentiment surrounding Lilies and Confession stacks would be less intense if they were perceived as remotely entertaining or as making WHM more unique.

To be honest, the mechanic could be anything thematically, but if people don't think the WHM will offer equal competition to AST & SCH raid utility, there would be the same outrage. How do I know this? Because there was no outrage at the beginning of 3.0 when AST was introduced with a card mechanic, SCH had a pet mechanic and WHM had no class mechanic at all to play with. People didn't care about that. They got angry when the new Meta rolled in after AST got loaded down with buffs and WHM dropped to third place.

If this is about fun, 4.0 WHM beats 3.0 and 2.0 by default of having a themed class mechanic to manage where there was simply nothing to engage with before. People literally complained less when SE gave them nothing in this field. It's not about fun or the theme. It's about that deeps utility, son! :P If WHM got Chain Strategem and a Presence of Mind trait that applied it to the raid, I'd wager there would be no outrage. The majority would easily accept the lilies from the media tour if they got some utility with their basic spells and traits.