Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

**Risvertasashi** · 06-03-2017 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by javid

Meanwhile getting 2+ lilies will be a miracle and getting the proc off crits will also be a miracle, but make these miracles FEEL like a MIRACLES!!

SUGGESTIONS

1 Lily: 10%
2 Lilies: 25%
3 Lilies: no recast!!
20% chance of reduction off crit cure rewards needs to either be able to stack! Meaning you can get multiple 5 secs off! or give us a flat 10 sec off.

While "any port in a storm" applies to buffs to WHM at this point... I really feel like whatever they do, it should synergize (sorry) with WHM's kit. As of right now the system is flat out contradictory, even if the numbers are buffed hugely it won't affect the problem with the concept. At the very least, let WHMs continue to build lilies without effectively locking out some of WHM's best skills.

**Angelic_Magic** · 06-03-2017 10:05 PM

Hello everyone, I decided to register here so I can post on this thread as well. I'm not sure if the developers are going to read this or not, but I'll gladly share my point of view and ideas about whm 4.0 nonetheless. I love white mage, white mage is my love, and not because of its simplicity. I like to divide jobs into themes, and I like white mage's theme - a mage who is connected to nature, divine, angelic, pure, white <3 Isn't it perfect? In my opinion, the theme of the white mage is beautiful, and what I had expected for white mage, or at least hoped for, was that it would follow this same theme in Stormblood. It sort of did, but... Sadly, I was very disappointed when I heard about the changes, because I feel like I have less things to play with as a white mage now.

Feedback on the new WHM skills:
I don't like the argument that claims that because scholar and astrologian are more complex, they should be rewarded with better tools. Some of the time, if not quite often, it is actually easier to play scholar or astrologian because their tools are simply more powerful. Yes, they have more things to play with, but isn't this a good thing? In the long run, it makes their job easier to achieve. Plus, it's more fun when you have more toys to play with. For this reason, I find that some of the new white mage skills make it more difficult for the white mage to do their job, while being unneeded to begin with. For example, the new Confession system sounds to me so unnecessary and not fun to play at all, as it gives no rewarding whatsoever. Plenary Indulgence 400/500/600 potency heal means very little to me, when I can just cast 2-3 medica's instead - much more simple and effective. If anyone tried to play with these presented confession stacks, wouldn't it be a waste of time? Furthermore, I like the look of the new skill Divine Benison. It is very nice and goes well with the white mage theme. However, since we already had a similar skill before, I find it a nerf for our Stoneskin. Stoneskin was so... iconic? It went with our theme perfectly because of the earth theme to it, it makes me sad to think it's gone. It can have great use in fights when there's a tank buster, and you can reapply it whenever you want. The new Divine Benison is on cool down, so only one person can have it on them - which is a huge nerf. I won't be able to reapply it immediately when it drops. When you look at our cousin, the astrologian, he already has an instant shield + bole card, which is far superior than what we currently have.

The new skill Thin Air is very powerful and welcome.

The new lilies mechanic is pretty on the screen, but I will probably ignore it, as I don't spam cures. If something procs, then yay. Otherwise, I won't really care about losing or gaining flowers.

Feedback on general healer gameplay:
I was disappointed to find out that the healers will lose virus, while the DPS classes will gain new mitigation skills. I feel as though DPS are robbing me MY gameplay. It should be *my thing* to prevent damage and heal, not theirs. This will make things easier for me, which I dislike.

Feedback on new role actions:
I feel that some of the new role actions shouldn't be role actions at all. For example: Shroud of Saints was perfect for our WHM theme, it's a shame it was renamed and put into role actions where WHM will have to take it back and therefore, waste one role action slot for it. I think that many feel the same as me, as astrologian had a similar action with its own theme too. It's a loss to both. Similar thing happened to Esuna, all jobs had it with a name that suited them, why rename it and have it as a role action, wasting another role action slot? These two skills are mendatory for all healers, except scholar might not really need Lucid Dream as he already has Aetherflow which works great already. Overall, I think that protect should be available to all healer jobs as default and virus should return to healers too. Divine Seal was a white mage job skill, why is it in role actions is beyond me.

Feedback on WHM lack of skills:
As mentioned before, I fear white mage has too little skills now to play with. The job is less engaging and have less things to do. In my opinion, I'd like to have more skills to play with. I am not afraid of 'complexity', complexity comes with great rewards once you master it for sure, and will be easier and more fun in the long run. I'd love to have more skills in the WHM theme similar to the new skills we are given but different and more fun overall. The skills should have to do with elements or divinity for sure. I also like the idea of white mages having a party buff Haste skill that is like Sprint for dodging aoes, that can be useful for everyone.

I think it is a mistake to remove stoneskin. Instead of removing it, there should be a way to enhance it with lilies - like the ability to stack 2 stoneskins when there are 2 white mages in a party. It could turn into a useful and powerful shield.

Give white mages a 'mini-god-mode' stance: Instead of confessions stacking on other party members, have them stack on white mage like summoner, once they reach 3 stacks, they can go into a special (10-15 seconds) stance that will grant them healing and damage bonuses. Like... 10% more self damage output + 10% healing potency + self defense goes up 20%, and have them grow wings like angels. That could be fun and also aesthetically pleasing <3

Overall feeling:
When I run into an astrologian (which happens a lot recently)... I do feel I bring less things to the party. I actually feel inferior, which is not a great feeling while trying to have fun. I told people before that astrologian is over powered, but people used to dismiss me. Astrologian was buffed too much, it's no longer a support class, but it has better healing and damage output than both white mage and scholar. This is insane... to the point I think the new best composition in raids would be 2 astrologians. I will continue with white mage as my main in Stormblood and am looking forward to new changes and fixes for the current skills, as I do love it and I hope to continue loving it in Stormblood too. Thank you for reading.

**Airget** · 06-03-2017 10:42 PM

The mechanics of Lilly are a but to RNG compared to the other healers.

AST, they have 6 buff cards, and can even exchange a card they don't want for a healing card or a Damage card, they have a decent amount of flexibility to go with the flow.

SCH, has a good amount of support and a nice addition of new abilities that aid even further in DPS.

WHM lacks any of this, while I imagine your thought is to have WHM not have to DPS, you shoot yourself in the foot by saying let's focus on Cures and ignore Stone, Aero I/II, Aero III/IV and Holy. In a way by pretending those don't exist you limit the potential of what a WHM could do.

If you use these abilities you could do the following.

Mechanic 1: Elemental Synergy. After using an Earth, Wind or Holy based action you next curative ability will be augmented.

Reason: Because of the design of WHM to already heal by a lot, adding a mechanic in which they weave in Damage to augment their curative spells in some way gives WHM more depth compared to the RNG mechanic which you currently have planned for them.

Mechanic 2:A stance which puts a limiter on WHM's healing say 20% and as time passes the gauge slowly builds up while in combat. This mechanic could in a sense by like NIN's auto-attack buildup of their gauge except this is a gauge that builds up overtime as long as the WHM is willing to put a -20% healing potency on the Cures. With the build up gauge you could then add another ability which gives WHM's control over when the exhaust their gauge. The lack of an option when it comes to exhausting resources also hurts WHM, AST can hold a card, redraw cards and have decent flexibility with their cards, yet WHM, with 3 Lille's is forced to use them if they want to use one of their OGC abiltiies. A WHM may want to wait for the right moment to use the Lilly since they have 0 input on when to activate it other than when they choose the ability that uses said mechanic.

Reason: WHM's are already capable of overhealing with ease, so why create mechanics which just make their heals even more OP? The Lille doesn't create a scenario of an uh oh button because of the way Confession and Lille's work, Confessions are to RNG that you have to actively cure/cureII allies in your party and then hope you can keep them up in the 30 second duration all for a pitiful 300-400-500 potency AOE cure. Which isn't the best payoff when you consier the AOE utility other jobs have like Indomitability, which is also instant, 400 potency, AOE cure, that just uses aetherflow. Meanwhile for WHM to get 300 potency for a target they need to have at least 1 confession up, meaning that this instant ability is pretty much worthless because of the effort it takes to just get 300 potency on all allies.

Mechanic 3: Same as above but instead introduce an Exhaust ability which "upgrades" Stone, Aero I/II, Aero III/IV, Holy and Fluid Aura to have a buff effect on target ally. You can only use one buff every 15-30 seconds as the Exhaust wears off once you use said buff but this would allow WHM some form of buffing in the game that they need.

Reason: WHM need buffs that assist allies, It works for DPS jobs to not have buffs for the party because they bring their DPS to the game, healers on the otherhand as you have mentioned before, may just want to heal, but by only giving WHM the options to heal or DPS, you kill their opportunity to be of use to most groups because they provide 0 utility compared to SCH and AST.

Mechanic 4: Purify, like Esuna, but it takes an enfeeble and turns it into a Buff. An ally can only be Purified once every 30-60 seconds.

Reason: Utility, give WHM something to make them special, the ability to turn certain enfeebles into buffs would be a decent one, maybe have it where only the white bar enfeebles can be purified but then the thought is, do all the enfeebles get purified or only one? Honestly I"d say all, maybe have it where where for each enfeeble Purified it adds 30 seconds to the limit of when said person can be hit with purify again. So say you get hit by bad Breath, Purify it removing all applicable abilities that can be swapped to positive effect to positive effects while leaving the negative ones on.

So let's say, Blind become Crit rate up. Heavy becomes Sprint, Slow becomes Haste, Any attribute down becomes an attribute up and nothing else comes off the to of my head but the following couldn't be purified.

Paralysis, Bind, Amnesia, Silence, basically only enfeebles which reduce your attributes in some way could be purified.

-----------

Those are the 4 that currently come off the top of my head, but basically, with WHM you need to add more utility to them, people don't care if WHM can overheal a tank by 400% because that 300% waste is just that, waste. Remember you called WHM/SCH/AST "Support" Roles, they aren't "Healer" Roles, they Support the party. Currently AST/SCH provide Support to the party, WHM doesn't and that's what you need to reevaluate when it comes to their mechanic and overall playstyle.

**Jxnibbles** · 06-03-2017 11:17 PM

Info on changes to White Mage since ARR.
2.x Series Cure 3 (Buff), PoM (Buff), Med 2 (Slight Nerf), Holy (Nerf), Stoneskin II (QoL).
3.x Series Protect/shell trait (Nerf), POM (Nerf), Holy (Nerf), Stoneskin/graniteskin (Nerf), Stoneskin ii(QoL).
Changes that I couldn't find data for Stone, Stone II, Aero 2 (I want to say slight buffs).
4.0 (Changes we know so far) Note: All abilities moved to Role Actions are considered Nerfs to Whm overall.
Cure (Buff..), Cure II (Buff..), Benediction (Buff), Thin Air (Buff), Shroud of Saints (Buff..), Surecast (Buff..), Stone (QoL slight nerf), Divine seal (Nerf), Esuna (Nerf), Protect (Nerf), Fluid Aura (Nerf).
Swiftcast (No change) Eye 4 eye (No change), Cleric Stance (QoL), Aero II (QoL),
Secrets of Lily (Dead on Arrival), Divine Bension (DoA), Plenary Indulgence (DoA).
Major Nerfs to Whm Include: Holy, Protect, Stoneskin, Divine Seal, Presence of Mind, Esuna, Med 2.
Major Buffs to Whm Include: Benediction.
Buffs to the following that mean very little Include: Cure, Cure II, Cure III, Stone, Stone II, Aero II, Surecast.
Note to fellow Whm this is our "Balance" nothing but general nerfs since 2.x. If I am missing any abilities or info please let me know.

**fantasticm** · 06-03-2017 11:25 PM

Please give us back Stoneskin and Divine Seal.

**Vaelin** · 06-03-2017 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by fantasticm

Please give us back Stoneskin and Divine Seal.

I totally agree with this. Why in the hell did they remove Stoneskin from WHM when we was already going to suffer with the LEAST amount of spells after the shafting that is the new Cross-Role system? Give us Divine Seal back. Give us Stoneskin back. Give us our JOB back Square, before you utterly destroy it and leave it for the vultures for this entire raid tier.

**Vrmillion** · 06-03-2017 11:41 PM

All I want is for Lillies and Confession stacks to not scale off our two least used healing actions in the whole kit. Less RNG would help, but as long as it functionally makes sense in the playstyle that WHM is best at (regens and abilities taking care of most of the healing) then I'm satisfied.

**aderichi** · 06-03-2017 11:43 PM

I am really glad SE did this! If I had to emphasize what I do not like about the changes its that White Mage are now so reliant on procs when White Mage is suppose to be the reliable healer.

I am also not partial to the fact everything is tied to cure I and cure II. White mages have big fun healing kits and I don't want to feel punished for using my whole arsenal. I would love to see confession stacks work off all direct heals including aoe, then maybe raise the CD of Planetary Indulgence.

**javid** · 06-03-2017 11:52 PM

I love my WHM....

But I understand that the EZ MODE HEALER, should be able to clear all content, which it does WITH EZZ by comparison,
cd/gcds should be extremely simple & forgiving, which they are
And the gap between healer functionality should be marginal
we're talking a 3-5% CURRENT raid content dps difference. Who knows where the healing factor difference is?

The skill ceiling for WHM is definitely lower than AST's and SCH's, so its not unreasonable to make their overall output to be a HAIR longer(...okay maybe 2 hairs once we get to top ilv raid gear, precise execution, max ilv SPEED FARMS

).

If you want them to equalize WHM with the other healers they will have to make it more sophisticated. And the truth be told a lot of you

1) Can't efficiently manage that amount of sophistication (if you could....then go play AST- there is your sophisticated whm!!!)
2) Some of you COULD manage the added attention to detail but rather not be bothered with such a cumbersome system as AST/SCH.

Face the facts

WHM is easy and reliable that's its UTILITY!!!

Originally Posted by Metsonm

Then don't do them off ticks? Do it on application, like Cure. I literally gave that suggestion.

UUUUHHHH.... you do know over the span of a fight you apply more cures than medica II and regen COMBINED.....

OH?? you not convinced?? here's a link to FFlogs, pick any content: dungeons, 24 man, raids, etc; go to WHM skills and there you'll find all the skills used and how many used.
https://www.fflogs.com/

Here is one example of a Sophia EX fight! We can all agree sophia is a pretty heavy AOE raid dmg fight no??? https://www.fflogs.com/reports/VwD4C...aling&source=1

This one examples demonstrates 41 cures (1 &2s) to 23 regens & medicaII.... so changing it to
HoT APPLICATIONS would make the occurrence even less likely than keeping it on cures. With FFLogs you have thousands upon thousands of examples to gauge the situation.

AND...
if SE made it regen/medica II application based, SE would have to make sure you can't get an additional proc by overriding your original regen/medica II; which would be a BAD THING!! how many times are we perfect at letting the first regen always fall off b4 applying the next? or during a long aoe sequence how often do we clip maybe 1 or 2 sec off the old medica II with a fresh medica II?? In each of these occurrences you'd lose a proc chance. Or if they did not negate overriding applications then ppl would sit there spamming regens and medica over and over their originals trying to get procs....

**Alkimi** · 06-04-2017 01:20 AM

Originally Posted by javid

UUUUHHHH.... you do know over the span of a fight you apply more cures than medica II and regen COMBINED.....

OH?? you not convinced?? here's a link to FFlogs, pick any content: dungeons, 24 man, raids, etc; go to WHM skills and there you'll find all the skills used and how many used.

It can depend on the fight.

On A11S for example, it's not that uncommon (especially now with echo) to not cast a single cure the entire fight. Mostly because Cruise Chaser has just one "tank buster" that if you're good you won't actually see that much. Everything else bar auto-attacks is avoidable or raid wide AoE.

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