How much WHM DPS is enough?

[Gemina]

I am definitely not one to say how much would be needed, but two things to keep in mind if they could.

1. It would destroy the "pure healer" identity SE is shooting for.
2. It would all come solely from the WHM, meaning that the DPS won't see their own numbers bolster, and instead see a WHM single-handedly destroy the raid.

It still isn't the raid utility players are asking for. There is utility SE can give WHMs and still keep their identity intact, but if the meta wants damage boosts, it will likely always be seen inferior to what SCH and AST brings. What I was thinking was after getting the lily system where it needs to be, is making their AoE stoneskin cause some kind of helpful debuff should the shielded player be struck, or something along the lines that negates TP cost for everyone for several seconds when they use Divine Benison.

Do any peeps who raid think something like this would be helpful?

[Fernosaur]

Do any peeps who raid think something like this would be helpful?

To be completely honest, with all melees having access to Goad, the existence of Spire (there is a reason this is always made Royal Road fodder), and BRD and MCH not needing to gimp their own DPS in order to give TP to the party, I don't think it'd be much helpful. Only time it would be helpful is if someone died to a mechanic, but most of the time that's where Goad gets used unless there's a moment in which the physicals are spamming their AoEs. PLDs rework into half-casting job will probably ease the job's horrible TP issues that have plagued it in the past, and everyone who uses TP is also getting access to Invigorate now.

[Menae]

It still isn't the raid utility players are asking for. There is utility SE can give WHMs and still keep their identity intact, but if the meta wants damage boosts, it will likely always be seen inferior to what SCH and AST brings. What I was thinking was after getting the lily system where it needs to be, is making their AoE stoneskin cause some kind of helpful debuff should the shielded player be struck, or something along the lines that negates TP cost for everyone for several seconds when they use Divine Benison.

Do any peeps who raid think something like this would be helpful?

TP issues tend to be pretty binary - either you need TP to keep up any sort of damage, or having more is of no benefit whatsoever.

The only ways I could see this working are if somebody is dying a lot (to which the better solution is probably stop doing that), or if there were more AoE phases in 4.0 raids, which do add a meaningful TP drain to DPS, but I don't see that as especially likely. We also are already going to be really good in those circumstances, because Thin Air>Holy spam is one of the few ways WHM has to be somewhat competitive with Balance if the circumstances call for it. It also would really, REALLY suck for SCH because all they get to do in that situation is Bane>Shadow Flare>Twiddle Thumbs.

[Gemina]

TP issues tend to be pretty binary - either you need TP to keep up any sort of damage, or having more is of no benefit whatsoever.

The only ways I could see this working are if somebody is dying a lot (to which the better solution is probably stop doing that), or if there were more AoE phases in 4.0 raids, which do add a meaningful TP drain to DPS, but I don't see that as especially likely. We also are already going to be really good in those circumstances, because Thin Air>Holy spam is one of the few ways WHM has to be somewhat competitive with Balance if the circumstances call for it. It also would really, REALLY suck for SCH because all they get to do in that situation is Bane>Shadow Flare>Twiddle Thumbs.

Raise utility is nice. 4.0 WHM sort of brings that being able to do it without costing MP. They literally can erase a death other than the weakness, and perhaps that is another thing they could give them. The ability to dispel weakness, and/or raise a player without it. That would give them some utility definitely 'pure healer' based and at least somewhat useful.
A re-raise ability might be helpful as well. Casted on healers and tanks would increase survival rate so long as the duration lasts until the player is in KO status. Another idea is reflect, which dishes back a certain percentage of damage inflicted on the player or group. The lily system could be used in accordance to this. 1 lily=reflect physical dmg, 2 lily=reflect magic damage. 3 lily=reflect both magic and physical damage+insert buff here. It needs to be rewarding. REALLY rewarding.

I'm just trying to think of anything useful without ramping up the DMG of other players.

[MsTanya]

Stratagem is looking to be roughly 5% crit increase for 15 seconds without solid mathing I cant really 100% say but I would be willing to assume balance beats a 5% chance to crit just due to it being a guaranteed buff and for double the duration. Is stratagem nice? Yes. Will it outperform even one single balance spread much less if theres two asts working in tandem to keep it up full time? I doubt it. Add to that that whm has no ability to directly buff party damage at all and its looking like ast is just stepping on both healers throats in this regard. Neither healers solo damage capabilities will fill that gap either so I think both whm and sch are kinda in an iffy spot at the moment unless something is done.