How much WHM DPS is enough?

[MsTanya]

Just seems like both parties would be better off duo ast given the hit to the LB bar wasn't crippling progress if its really only 3%.

[Judge_Xero]

Just seems like both parties would be better off duo ast given the hit to the LB bar wasn't crippling progress if its really only 3%.

It would be if an AST + SCH combo didn't buy each healer so much extra dps uptime given good coordination. (And mainly due to the fairy)

Probably another reason why AST ST dps us so much lower as well.

[MsTanya]

Actually if you math it out Ast single target dps is up compared to now. Keeping up combust1/2 constantly and fulltime malefic 2 spam is 5040 potency per minute currently. SB theyre gonna be doing combust 2 and fulltime malefic 3 spam plus earthly dominance which is 5720 potency per minute and that's not even counting a single lord card. (not included cuz rng but max is 2/minute for 600 extra potency). These values are in a vacuum of course with no healing at all used but the potential is there.

[Belhi]

I don't really see WHM in an off healer role. Its core strength is main healing. On top of that most SCH and AST contributions can be done while healing making AST a strong main healer. WHM doesn't just need higher dps. It needs enough to counter all the advantages the others bring and frankly SCH isn't its main competition. Now maybe AST can push SCH out of the meta but honestly I suspect that the WHM isn't going to have enough time to dps to make up the difference over the course of most fights.

[Judge_Xero]

I may be wrong but from what I mathed if you include the loss of 10% Clerics and the 5% cast reduction of Diurnal AST is down to 95 potency/s from 103 potency/s.

SCH seems to be up to 103 potency/s from 95 potency/s without counting Energy Drains.

[MsTanya]

Making me math today, for the sake of offhealer role I'm doing the calculations purely off of the gcd itself. Current sch=5676 with clerics on. Current ast= 5962ppm w/o balance with clerics.
Projected Stormblood values, purely based off of potency...Sch=6150 Ast=5720 still w/o drains or balance or lord. So scholars gain about 8% damage and astro lost about 4%. Even if you get just one lord card per minute which is fair to say will happen due to sleeve draw and bad rng with regular draw...it will put you at 6020. So you still make it out slightly ahead.

[SakurazukaSeishirou]

I would like more dps for dungeons/solo content. lose of the dps is what bothers me the most, as i don't raid and hybrid healers where always my favorite.

[Acidblood]

I was thinking about the WHM changes, and if the WHM was able to push out DPS equivalent to a DPS class, and was also able to push out enough HPS to cover healing, would that make WHM an interesting choice to a SCH or AST?

It may come close (assuming they had regular chances to just stand around and do DPS*), but it would also make them seriously OP in all other content (open world, dungeons, PotD, Aquaplois), so it's not really a solution. So no, the only way to truly 'balance*' the healers, for ALL content, is to give all of them comparable healing power, similar DPS potential, and unique utility; this way they can all cover their primary role, can all kill things in a reasonable time, and can all offer an 'interesting choice' (as you put it) when it comes to group compositions.

* Even a single target balance offers +20% for 30 seconds, meaning that any WHM would have to find at least 30 * 0.2 = 6 seconds to do nothing but DPS for each balance an AST draws, and longer for Extended / Expanded Balance.

* Note: This does not mean all healers need to be the same, or that one won't be marginally better for a specific encounter than another, it simply means that there needs to be an actual choice; unlike now where you lose nothing by taking an AST over a WHM.

[Kethic]

It may come close (assuming they had regular chances to just stand around and do DPS*), but it would also make them seriously OP in all other content (open world, dungeons, PotD, Aquaplois), so it's not really a solution. So no, the only way to truly 'balance*' the healers, for ALL content, is to give all of them comparable healing power, similar DPS potential, and unique utility; this way they can all cover their primary role, can all kill things in a reasonable time, and can all offer an 'interesting choice' (as you put it) when it comes to group compositions.

* Even a single target balance offers +20% for 30 seconds, meaning that any WHM would have to find at least 30 * 0.2 = 6 seconds to do nothing but DPS for each balance an AST draws, and longer for Extended / Expanded Balance.

* Note: This does not mean all healers need to be the same, or that one won't be marginally better for a specific encounter than another, it simply means that there needs to be an actual choice; unlike now where you lose nothing by taking an AST over a WHM.

Interesting that you phrase it that way. I believe the changes to Cleric Stance and Aero gave WHM back 4-5 GCDs per minute, which would amount to about the same. Not sure it's an accurate measure though.

Let's play with Alex Creator Savage parse numbers... 2500-3000dps seems to be the top range? So I think 10k is a reasonable estimate for 4 dps? 10k * 20% * half a minute = 1kdps sustained needed from WHM to make up for the loss of a Balance.

It gets a little trickier trying to find a WHM in a top clear time, but at #25 you can find a WHM doing 2400dps. Worth noting that the AST also did 1900dps.
Even if you scrub the influence of balance from the numbers, it's well above the 1k threshold. https://www.fflogs.com/reports/BM3RD...pe=damage-done

So, I think it may actually be possible that WHM personal dps will be adequate to bridge the gap, given the GCDs we've been given back. It doesn't change that Lily's and Confessions are likely to be almost entirely ignored.

[Shurrikhan]

It gets a little trickier trying to find a WHM in a top clear time, but at #25 you can find a WHM doing 2400dps. Worth noting that the AST also did 1900dps.
Even if you scrub the influence of balance from the numbers, it's well above the 1k threshold. https://www.fflogs.com/reports/BM3RD...pe=damage-done

So, I think it may actually be possible that WHM personal dps will be adequate to bridge the gap, given the GCDs we've been given back.

If only people looked at the Monk "issue" as even-handedly...
...and if Monk hadn't been nerfed to such an extent as to now trail in personal dps, given latest tooltips, all excused in the name of adding particularly slipshod RNG mechanics and the lowest-value raid DPS contributor yet (.83% over time).

Everyone accepts that above a certain party DPS threshold, x personal DPS gain may be inferior to y party dps modifier bonuses. Yet few seem to acknowledge the opposite. So long as the particularly high DPS scales at the same rate as the party average, balance is entirely possible. The only issue is that the personal DPS gains that are balanced against raid modifiers in an 8-man will be relatively stronger in party sizes of less than 8, such as dungeon or solo content. Not that there's a Savage mode for any light party content anyways...