Necromancer Identity Crisis

[Yorumi]

To me they really missed an opportunity to use summons as part of skill animations. Summoners in FF have had all kinds of summons, they should have made for example tri-disaster's graphic summon something, hit the target, and then desummon. They could have had ruin III under dreadwyrm do random summons. Imagine doing dreadwyrm and every ruin III is a random summon that does an attack like leviathan, ramuh, shiva, sephirot, ravana etc. Perhaps not perfect but I bet there would be a lot less complaints about not feeling like a summoner.

While I understand they want to go backwards to the old version of the job or the half assed version that was the FFXI summoner. The reality is, that old FFXIV Summoner was incredibly unpopular... and by all accounts weak. And I can personally vouch for how crappy the old FFXI Summoner was too.

Considering this is so much of the foundation of your argument you really should stop cause it just makes you look silly. You're using straw man arguments. People arn't asking for clones of ffxi's summoner or something. The thing is even if they were asking for near mechanical clones of ffxi's summoner they wouldn't also be asking for it to be underpowered. The mechanical abilities of a job are independent of it's power balance.

[Silverquick]

Considering this is so much of the foundation of your argument you really should stop cause it just makes you look silly. You're using straw man arguments. People arn't asking for clones of ffxi's summoner or something. The thing is even if they were asking for near mechanical clones of ffxi's summoner they wouldn't also be asking for it to be underpowered. The mechanical abilities of a job are independent of it's power balance.

Naw,

Its not making me look stupid at all... it may be a strawman, but after you've seen enough of these... just wait... soon the topic will drift there

You never asked yourself why a pair of WHMs would come complain about a DPS class did you?

[Yorumi]

Naw,

Its not making me look stupid at all... it may be a strawman, but after you've seen enough of these... just wait... soon the topic will drift there

You never asked yourself why a pair of WHMs would come complain about a DPS class did you?

By saying you're ok with a straw man you're quite literally saying you don't want a rational discussion.

[Silverquick]

By saying you're ok with a straw man you're quite literally saying you don't want a rational discussion.

No.. I just know that it was never intended as a rational discussion in the first place... it was just an agenda.

When actual SMNs come out and talk about things I generally give them an honest answer and did at first... but someone who doesn't even play the job is doing it. It's pretty suspect. And its not fooling anyone anymore.

And its always someone playing some other job doing this... not actual SMN's who are playing the job talking about that.

Those I actually respect, and have reason to.

[Dyvid]

You never asked yourself why a pair of WHMs would come complain about a DPS class did you?

These are the comments that bug me the most about your rebuttals. You just assume that someone who plays another job has never touched or main'ed SMN before. That "WHM" has more jobs at level 60 than you do including ACN. I would be willing to bet everyone at this discussion has ACN at 60. I changed my main class to Miner but do you honestly think that's my main?

[Silverquick]

These are the comments that bug me the most about your rebuttals. You just assume that someone who plays another job has never touched or main'ed SMN before. That "WHM" has more jobs at level 60 than you do including ACN. I would be willing to bet everyone at this discussion has ACN at 60.

Yeah but guess what there man...

That means jack diddly squat compared to the people who ARE maining it... and DO play it regularly...

I moonlight as a BLM... but I sure as hell don't run around telling them they should change the entire job because I don't like something a certain way.

How much arrogance does it take to do that?

[Yorumi]

Yeah but guess what there man...

That means jack diddly squat compared to the people who ARE maining it... and DO play it regularly...

I moonlight as a BLM... but I sure as hell don't run around telling them they should change the entire job because I don't like something a certain way.

How much arrogance does it take to do that?

This is ad hominem fallacy. I don't think you've made a valid and rational argument this entire thread. People also don't necessarily keep their main updated on the forums. I've personally gone through phases maining one job for months, deciding I wanted a chance of pace, and maining something else for months. It's also not hard to play multiple jobs. Beyond that you really don't need to know a job mechanically to comment on the aesthetics of a job. We're not talking about playing the job to it's maximum potential, we're talking cosmetics. For that it doesn't really matter how much someone has played the job. You're the one actually making a worthless contribution to the thread by continuing to spout one irrational statement after the next. it's rather childish to respond with essentially "oh yeah well I don't care what you have to say cause you didn't click a forum button to set your main job to summoner."

[Silverquick]

This is ad hominem fallacy. I don't think you've made a valid and rational argument this entire thread. People also don't necessarily keep their main updated on the forums. I've personally gone through phases maining one job for months, deciding I wanted a chance of pace, and maining something else for months. It's also not hard to play multiple jobs. Beyond that you really don't need to know a job mechanically to comment on the aesthetics of a job.

Oh yeah because.... you know... you obviously do play main it right? ....and of course any changes will totally affect YOU and...

....NOT THE PEOPLE WHO MAIN IT OR PLAY IT REGULARLY... right??

Or are you that arrogant that you truly believe you should just hop on and dictate to the people who do play it how the class SHOULD be?

Don't know how much more clear I can make that.

[Yorumi]

Oh yeah because.... you know... you obviously do play main it right? ....and of course any changes will totally affect YOU and...

....NOT THE PEOPLE WHO MAIN IT OR PLAY IT REGULARLY... right??

Or are you that arrogant that you truly believe you should just hop on and dictate to the people who do play it how the class SHOULD be?

Don't know how much more clear I can make that.

It's not hard to play multiple jobs. Using invalid arguments, logical fallacies, and irrationality is a good way to look like an idiot though. It's a very strong indicator that a person cannot defend their position at all, and essentially lends credibility to opposing positions by default. Really, person A presents a logically valid argument, person B bases the foundation of their argument on whether or not someone clicked a button a forum that is utterly meaningless when it comes to what they play in game. You havn't really contributed at all except name calling and whining that someone didn't click summoner before posting. Heck the original suggestion of a name change wouldn't even affect you.

[Nerisu]

Oh yeah because.... you know... you obviously do play main it right? ....and of course any changes will totally affect YOU and...

....NOT THE PEOPLE WHO MAIN IT OR PLAY IT REGULARLY... right??

Or are you that arrogant that you truly believe you should just hop on and dictate to the people who do play it how the class SHOULD be?

Don't know how much more clear I can make that.

Just because they play it less than you doesn't mean their points become less valid but if that's how you want to put it then it's like you saying that my points are more valid than yours simply because I have more experience playing as FFXIV's summoner. That's not how it works, though.