Necromancer Identity Crisis

[AugustinesShadow]

Thank you Hasrat. My point exactly.

I'm not saying the current class that occupies Summoner's place has to change or go away. I'm just saying call it something else, and later on down the line, put in an actual Summoner class that really Summons.

Also, there's no reason that Summoner has to be ludicrously expensive or have a stupidly long casting time. There are any number of changes and tweaks that can be made.

For right now, let's let the Necromancer/Warlock fans have their Necromancer/Warlock, and then add in a real Summoner job later on.

[Kaitoo]

Two other items:

I do also play Summoner. Mine is level 60. It doesn't live up to its predecessors in previous games.

Also, the plural of anecdotes is not data. You say that plenty of people are perfectly happy with it as-is. I can tell you that I'm not the only one that disagrees.

You deciding that there's no problem isn't the same as there being no problem. It just means that you like Necromancer/Warlock.

yeah and what else is not there is that there is no nowhere near as a solid definition of summoner in ff lore, as hasrat pointed correctly out, so your first post makes no sense at all = no problem.

[Silverquick]

Silver, I just want to point out that your initial argument was that we shouldn't be worried over cosmetics in a video game, which is by its definition wholly cosmetic. It's ludicrous.

And who said so... the people that play the job?

Or YOU...

You know what I hear out of actual SMN's... you know the ones who actually play it?

Nothing to do with pets.

Its usually about more aetherflow stacks and more powers like DWT and Deathflare aka Bahamut's Teraflare. Thats the direction most who actually play it at those levels want to go with it. They want to expand into Alexander for the next one or something similar, not some half assed white mage that was the old FFXI Summoner.

They WANT to go more in the direction of the Heavensward ideas because they've seen them and played them and LIKE them.

[AugustinesShadow]

Speaking of no sense at all, Kaitoo, your complete lack of grammar pretty much invalidates anything you may have tried to communicate. Why are you here and how are you contributing to the discussion?

As for you Silver - let me educate you on a few key points.

First off, making assumptions does you no credit.

I play Summoner periodically. Check my lodestone - it's level 60.

Secondly, why do I automatically have to want it to be a pet class? Did I state such? If so, quote it. If not, you know what the first three letters of "Assume" are and what it makes you. Don't worry - you're not alone.

Third, I have no problem with Summoner being a Nuke class. I just want nukes that look like summons.

In addition, if you can't address any of my points, that means you lack the critical thinking skills to understand them.

Finally, why are you so afraid of a name change? Are you a child that just can't stand to share?

[Hasrat]

For right now, let's let the Necromancer/Warlock fans have their Necromancer/Warlock, and then add in a real Summoner job later on.

Orrrr, we could just leave it as is and accept that this is just how this game's "summoner" works. It changes game to game, so why can't this just be how it works in this game? In the interest of not having a BLM copycat (where the "summons" are casting your spells instead of just casting yourself), and due to the lack of any traditional poison control class, I don't really see anything wrong with the way it is now. The best thing to hope for is probably new pets with more utility, but ultimately even that is competing with the mentality of "DPS is all that's important."

If you can find a way to get the playerbase to explore creativity instead of focusing solely on killing things fast, maybe things could change. That was really the utility of most of the jobs and systems in previous games. You could build a team/strategy around fun ideas, or you could just spam "Attack" because it was quicker, cheaper, and ultimately the most efficient way to clear through trash. Playing with other people, you no longer have that luxury of choice.

[AugustinesShadow]

I accepted the disappointment that was Summoning magic in XII, XIII, and XV. It's why I'm largely disenchanted with the Final Fantasy franchise.

There's no reason that Silver can't have his Warlock/Necromancer. I wish him joy of it. But call it something else and let the Summoners have their Summons.

As previously stated, video games are wholly cosmetic - it's nice to pull big numbers, but that's not the end-all be-all. In fact that's not the point at all. Bards pull numbers, ninjas pull numbers, black mages pull numbers, but it's how they do it that entertains us.

FFXIV isn't a closed game. There's not a reason they can't give us a real Summoner class except simply not wanting to.

Again, what's wrong with sharing? Is it really necessary to shut down an opposing viewpoint just because it doesn't agree with yours, when it doesn't hurt you and in fact could enrich the game experience? Compromise in this case isn't going to hurt anyone.

[Dyvid]

Though I agree at this point SE might as well replace Egi's with pew pew primal spells if they didn't like the original concept of Summoner. Don't make a pet job if you don't want to make it a pet job. SCH is the better of the pet jobs, followed by MCH, then SMN.

As for SilverQuick, stop throwing shade at people who aren't happy with the massive overhaul 3.0 did to jobs. They main'ed those jobs long before you even started playing, most stop playing because of the slap in the face it was. For everyone who started playing FFXIV after 3.0, the main complaint is simple. back in 2013 SE added a "pet" job called Summoner that played very similar to vanilla WoW Warlock, which is fine since BLM cover the glass cannon dps. We had our beefs like tri-disaster, egi size and appearance, and Garuda's contagion. Yoshi-P said in the next expansion we could expect to get Ramuh, Shiva, and Levi as pets. Then 3.0 hit and we got a Bahamut head with pew pew lasers. The problem is, like many other "enhancements" 3.0 did to other jobs, it didn't further the original design people played for 2 years.

If you think veteran summoner's are mad, go talk to Veteran Bards and how much they enjoyed wanderer's minuet.

As for me, I think the dev could have tried a little harder on trying to make improvements while keep with the spirit of the original design.

[Capriana]

snip

What you are suggesting is ludicrous. They can not simply go back and change all the FFXIV lore, story lines, quests, and everything with summoners in them.
This is the card we are dealt with and we should learn to enjoy it.

I also don't see anything wrong with the summoner, sure you don't get huge ass summons with lots of graphics and 30min cut scenes, but THEY are using nukes and spells borrowed from the primal. Have you seen the animation of DeathFlare? Or even the icon? It is simply, Bahamut's signature move without the whole Bahamut animation summon. The camera doesn't go into outer space, the bahamut doesn't go flying within stars to target Eorzea and then take 5 min to charge up its ever so powerful attack, you just see the flare hitting the mobs. What is wrong with that?

At the end, know this, the summoner is here to stay and SB will have great things in store for it. Just wait and see. They will not change its name and give you a new class just so you can feel like you are playing a summoner class from the FFT or FF4 or something. Enjoy it as a new type of summoner made just for FFXIV.

Next thing you know, you want summon animations from FFXV or the power they had ...

[xJimmehx]

If summoner had more summons, or at least focused on one shot abilities that summoned a primal for a single move before it returned, I would probably like it.
The poisons and dot management is boring and has nothing to do with summoning primals. I dont understand why it was tacked on. It makes no sense. Summoner is one of my biggest disappointments in the game. I don't understand why they even made it..or scholar either. Even they dont know what the heck they were thinking. Summoner should have been like weaker versions of either the whm or blm with summons for npc-dps/nukes instead of spells(making them just as good instead of sub par). Then, they should have added a dot class separate. Something like the alchemist (item using job) though it would have a different name than that because we have potion brewers with that name already. This is all my opinion.

[magnanimousCynic]

Something like the alchemist (item using job) though it would have a different name than that because we have potion brewers with that name already. This is all my opinion.

I hope you don't mean something like needing to buy or craft ammunition. Jobs that require inventory space or Gil to complete their rotations are badly designed.

But if you mean something akin to Mudras to make potion for use mid-battle as extra abilities or ability enhancers, then it sounds neat.