Necromancer Identity Crisis

[AugustinesShadow]

I accepted the disappointment that was Summoning magic in XII, XIII, and XV. It's why I'm largely disenchanted with the Final Fantasy franchise.

There's no reason that Silver can't have his Warlock/Necromancer. I wish him joy of it. But call it something else and let the Summoners have their Summons.

As previously stated, video games are wholly cosmetic - it's nice to pull big numbers, but that's not the end-all be-all. In fact that's not the point at all. Bards pull numbers, ninjas pull numbers, black mages pull numbers, but it's how they do it that entertains us.

FFXIV isn't a closed game. There's not a reason they can't give us a real Summoner class except simply not wanting to.

Again, what's wrong with sharing? Is it really necessary to shut down an opposing viewpoint just because it doesn't agree with yours, when it doesn't hurt you and in fact could enrich the game experience? Compromise in this case isn't going to hurt anyone.

[Capriana]

snip

What you are suggesting is ludicrous. They can not simply go back and change all the FFXIV lore, story lines, quests, and everything with summoners in them.
This is the card we are dealt with and we should learn to enjoy it.

I also don't see anything wrong with the summoner, sure you don't get huge ass summons with lots of graphics and 30min cut scenes, but THEY are using nukes and spells borrowed from the primal. Have you seen the animation of DeathFlare? Or even the icon? It is simply, Bahamut's signature move without the whole Bahamut animation summon. The camera doesn't go into outer space, the bahamut doesn't go flying within stars to target Eorzea and then take 5 min to charge up its ever so powerful attack, you just see the flare hitting the mobs. What is wrong with that?

At the end, know this, the summoner is here to stay and SB will have great things in store for it. Just wait and see. They will not change its name and give you a new class just so you can feel like you are playing a summoner class from the FFT or FF4 or something. Enjoy it as a new type of summoner made just for FFXIV.

Next thing you know, you want summon animations from FFXV or the power they had ...

[Shurrikhan]

What you are suggesting is ludicrous. They can not simply go back and change all the FFXIV lore, story lines, quests, and everything with summoners in them.
This is the card we are dealt with and we should learn to enjoy it.

Perhaps its been too long since I've rewatched the ACN/SMN cutscenes, but I can't recall any of that saying why we ended up DoT-centric or why our pets have such limited contribution. Nor is there much explicit text or explanation that would conflict with the majority of requested reworks. Even the term "Egi" is rarely enough defined as to take more than some dozen lines of adjustment if the concept were to be changed to <the brief appearance of an primal's image before a like manifestation of aether into a powerful spell> rather than <a persistent unit with access to like elements of magic through 2 basic skills and 2 unique abilities>; the only issue then would be the combat against the Egis in the quests themselves, assuming the term couldn't take either meaning contextually... And, at the same time, most of the requests for a more functional and effective pet presence in Summoner gameplay could be met without making anywhere so drastic a change. I really don't see what, lore-wise, is preventing a more Summoner-like (or otherwise more engaging) Summoner.

[Tsilyi]

I accepted the disappointment that was Summoning magic in XII, XIII, and XV. It's why I'm largely disenchanted with the Final Fantasy franchise.

what did you prefer summoning to be like?

[Dyvid]

Though I agree at this point SE might as well replace Egi's with pew pew primal spells if they didn't like the original concept of Summoner. Don't make a pet job if you don't want to make it a pet job. SCH is the better of the pet jobs, followed by MCH, then SMN.

As for SilverQuick, stop throwing shade at people who aren't happy with the massive overhaul 3.0 did to jobs. They main'ed those jobs long before you even started playing, most stop playing because of the slap in the face it was. For everyone who started playing FFXIV after 3.0, the main complaint is simple. back in 2013 SE added a "pet" job called Summoner that played very similar to vanilla WoW Warlock, which is fine since BLM cover the glass cannon dps. We had our beefs like tri-disaster, egi size and appearance, and Garuda's contagion. Yoshi-P said in the next expansion we could expect to get Ramuh, Shiva, and Levi as pets. Then 3.0 hit and we got a Bahamut head with pew pew lasers. The problem is, like many other "enhancements" 3.0 did to other jobs, it didn't further the original design people played for 2 years.

If you think veteran summoner's are mad, go talk to Veteran Bards and how much they enjoyed wanderer's minuet.

As for me, I think the dev could have tried a little harder on trying to make improvements while keep with the spirit of the original design.

[Silverquick]

As for SilverQuick, stop throwing shade at people who aren't happy with the massive overhaul 3.0 did to jobs.

They main'ed those jobs long before you even started playing, most stop playing because of the slap in the face it was. For everyone who started playing FFXIV after 3.0, the main complaint is simple. back in 2013 SE added a "pet" job called Summoner that played very similar to vanilla WoW Warlock, which is fine since BLM cover the glass cannon dps. We had our beefs like tri-disaster, egi size and appearance, and Garuda's contagion. Yoshi-P said in the next expansion we could expect to get Ramuh, Shiva, and Levi as pets. Then 3.0 hit and we got a Bahamut head with pew pew lasers. The problem is, like many other "enhancements" 3.0 did to other jobs, it didn't further the original design people played for 2 years.

If you think veteran summoner's are mad, go talk to Veteran Bards and how much they enjoyed wanderer's minuet.

Yeah I get that... but dude... lets face reality here.

The changes in 3.0 and moving towards the Dreadwyrm Trance and Bahamut Teraflare really ARE the direction people wanted to go with. The job is much more powerful... and popular than it ever was.

This one is starting to fit the actual FF Summoner.

Some of these people really are just living in their own little world.

While I understand they want to go backwards to the old version of the job or the half assed version that was the FFXI summoner. The reality is, that old FFXIV Summoner was incredibly unpopular... and by all accounts weak. And I can personally vouch for how crappy the old FFXI Summoner was too.

The people who actually play the job want to move in the direction of the Heavensward changes... that IS what really made the job good and fun to play.

As to the old Arcanist powers that are still with the SMN, I have no problem with it, because it was the BASE job... and the Summoner was the Prestige job. So I accept it still will use the old powers of the base job as a base layer to work from with the additions of the things you learned later as a Summoner.

Nothing wrong with that, given the history of the individual who started as an Arcanist and how he became a Summoner and is still learning how to be one.

Still no one can argue with the fact the Heavenward changes have made the job incredibly popular and powerful now.

[Nerisu]

I think the best thing they can do now is just change the animations and names of the Bio and Miasma spells into something more related to the other primals when the SMN soul crystal is equipped to at least make it feel like Dissidia Yuna. I don't see them doing it though but who know?

I'm more worried about the animations of the next egi-glams, though (that is, if we're still getting actual egis and not just more recolored carbies). I don't want to see something like Ramuh-egi farting out wind attacks or Shiva-egi dealing flame damage.

[Yorumi]

To me they really missed an opportunity to use summons as part of skill animations. Summoners in FF have had all kinds of summons, they should have made for example tri-disaster's graphic summon something, hit the target, and then desummon. They could have had ruin III under dreadwyrm do random summons. Imagine doing dreadwyrm and every ruin III is a random summon that does an attack like leviathan, ramuh, shiva, sephirot, ravana etc. Perhaps not perfect but I bet there would be a lot less complaints about not feeling like a summoner.

While I understand they want to go backwards to the old version of the job or the half assed version that was the FFXI summoner. The reality is, that old FFXIV Summoner was incredibly unpopular... and by all accounts weak. And I can personally vouch for how crappy the old FFXI Summoner was too.

Considering this is so much of the foundation of your argument you really should stop cause it just makes you look silly. You're using straw man arguments. People arn't asking for clones of ffxi's summoner or something. The thing is even if they were asking for near mechanical clones of ffxi's summoner they wouldn't also be asking for it to be underpowered. The mechanical abilities of a job are independent of it's power balance.

[Silverquick]

Considering this is so much of the foundation of your argument you really should stop cause it just makes you look silly. You're using straw man arguments. People arn't asking for clones of ffxi's summoner or something. The thing is even if they were asking for near mechanical clones of ffxi's summoner they wouldn't also be asking for it to be underpowered. The mechanical abilities of a job are independent of it's power balance.

Naw,

Its not making me look stupid at all... it may be a strawman, but after you've seen enough of these... just wait... soon the topic will drift there

You never asked yourself why a pair of WHMs would come complain about a DPS class did you?

[Yorumi]

Naw,

Its not making me look stupid at all... it may be a strawman, but after you've seen enough of these... just wait... soon the topic will drift there

You never asked yourself why a pair of WHMs would come complain about a DPS class did you?

By saying you're ok with a straw man you're quite literally saying you don't want a rational discussion.