Necromancer Identity Crisis

[Dyvid]

Silver, your argument is still "I don't want my job to change! I don't want a XI Summoner clone!" which I'm not saying should occur. I'm just saying that the DoT specialist class you enjoy just needs a new name so that there can be actual Summoners who actually Summon things.

If nothing else your dogged determination is impressive (if unproductive). You're very noticeably and empirically in the minority (in this and other threads, I've noticed) but you're a very VOCAL minority.

At least you're not like Kaitoo, who still has yet to make a coherent point of any kind.
Don't feel threatened. It's great that you enjoy your job, but the job you're enjoying is DoT specialization and burst damage off of it. I don't think that job needs to go away. I just think it needs a new, more appropriate name.

Honestly the DoT dps isn't a bad design choice for a pet job. It allows the player to have continuous damage while controlling pets. The problem is FFXIV does really require control of pet so you need something to fill that gap. 2.0 it was spamming ruin and 3.0 it's building up trances.

I'm generally curious on what you think what your idea of how a more traditional summoner could work in FF14. The only ways I can think of it are:
1) A job that is completely focused on their pets and all abilities go through said pet (beastmaster)
2) A job that focuses on support abilities with a mix of dps ( basically what FF11 tried to do and what our brd/mch do)
3)A job that that focuses on heavy dmg through high risk spells, high mp costs with high cast times, with minimal support options ( probably wouldn't work because more than likely it will have longer cast times than blm or risk being similar to blm)
4) A job that summons egis to leaves lasting effects on the field that can sync up with other summons' effects ( basically combos)
5) A job where the summons react to what the player casts and amplifies the caster's spells ( kinda like Contagion but on a much wider scale)
6) (My personal favorite) A job that has the current egis but have multiple trances for different elements. Each trance has different spells and effects and pets so the player will need to stance dance and you'll build up energy for your ultimate trance. Dreadwyrm Trance ( basically combining FF114 SMN with GW2 elementalist)

When it comes down to it, summoner just does not have much potential in a mmo especially one like FF14. Combat is far to simply for any advance class mechanics and it has way too much movement for a traditional summoner to work.

That's a tough one. I don't want any job to face skill bloating so something like FFXI avatar's would be an issue though it was nice to have a wide selection of abilities based on summons. I also want to open the door to many different egi but this causes and issue of what each pets role is. I guess summon and release would address both issues but basically turn egi from pet to spells. I suppose another method would be to make a pet rotation system based on the elemental wheel; were you cast fire > ice > wind > earth > lightning > water. You could even extend this to Bahamut by making him dark then Alexander, light.

[Silverquick]

Silver, your argument is still "I don't want my job to change! I don't want a XI Summoner clone!" which I'm not saying should occur. I'm just saying that the DoT specialist class you enjoy just needs a new name so that there can be actual Summoners who actually Summon things.

If nothing else your dogged determination is impressive (if unproductive). You're very noticeably and empirically in the minority (in this and other threads, I've noticed) but you're a very VOCAL minority.

At least you're not like Kaitoo, who still has yet to make a coherent point of any kind.

Don't feel threatened. It's great that you enjoy your job, but the job you're enjoying is DoT specialization and burst damage off of it. I don't think that job needs to go away. I just think it needs a new, more appropriate name.

No no...

I just have serious problems with someone like you who doesn't even play the job regularly (Plays WHM, not even a DPS)... walking in and saying Oh this needs a whole new rework because its not the summoner I PERSONALLY wanted... Screw everyone else ...

Yeah of course I have a serious problem with that.

And I hate to tell you this, but the only "Majority" I'm seeing on the other side of the ball are people like you who MAIN OTHER jobs... but don't play this thing regularly.. .

Yet here I can walk around any given day... on the server and just see one SMN after another enjoying the Job for what it is...

Sorry to break it to you sweetheart... but its YOU in the minority.

[AugustinesShadow]

More baseless assertions.

We all get it. You have your opinion and you don't care about the facts, or that you're arguing against something I'm not even proposing to start with, but I can't help but roll my eyes when you claim that I'm the one disregarding everyone else's opinion when you're the one perpetrating that indignity. That's a textbook case of projection. At this point it's clear you're a selfish child, completely incapable of reading or of comprehension thereby, and you only care about yourself.

Congratulations, you've made yourself wholly irrelevant. No one wants to engage with someone who has no capacity for interpersonal interaction except maybe a special education teacher who has a heart big enough to pity you in spite of your handicaps (and is getting paid a living wage for doing so).

That certainly doesn't count me.

[AugustinesShadow]

The best course at this point in my opinion remains that it would the most workable to separate the necromancer/warlock class from the Summoner job title. It doesn't even necessarily have to be called a Necromancer or Warlock. Arcanist certainly doesn't have a precursor in FF lore, so you could conceivably come up with a whole new name - something like "Spirit-Eater" or "Soul Gatherer" or some variation on that theme.

Revamping the existing class isn't feasible or sensible, and you'll obviously have people like Silver who will certainly and reasonably object to it being irrevocably destroyed and replaced.

I am not sold on the idea that the new Summoner should be a pet class at all. In lore it was more of a mage, just with a spell-effect generated via the Summon. There's no reason it should have to be a Black Mage clone either. If anything I would like to see it using stances/combos corresponding to the primals (the how's and what's are open to debate).

[Silverquick]

The best course at this point in my opinion remains that it would the most workable to separate the necromancer/warlock class from the Summoner job title. It doesn't even necessarily have to be called a Necromancer or Warlock. Arcanist certainly doesn't have a precursor in FF lore, so you could conceivably come up with a whole new name - something like "Spirit-Eater" or "Soul Gatherer" or some variation on that theme..

Says the person who mains WHM....

[Okamimaru]

this kinda bothers me... i enjoy the class but its hard to call it summoner... green mage maybe... tri-disaster was the summon Tritoch's attack in FF6, it should be a lightning/fire/ice attack not disease... ive said since we dont really have a element wheel in the game have summons all do the same damage, using different aoe zones, and each giving a non stacking bonus (+1) to one stat (titan +1 vit, Ifrit+1 str, ruda +1 mind) carry this on to new egis (shiva +1 int, levi +1 pie, ramuh +1 dex)... make egis look more like their full primal counterparts (im not saying huge primals but come on the primal windup minions look better than the egi we have)... it wouldnt change the class as we have it but it would make it feel more "summoner" like

[RyanRebs]

Im happy with Summoner , I quit BLM for it . The power of aoe and calling to power of bahamut is so satisfying on its own. We may get 1 more pet to serve the utility role . Never know

[AvenoMatt]

I love SMN but I understand why a lot of players don't feel the SMN we have isn't a real "Summoner". Maybe a way to implement the type of summoner players want is to have a job that casts spell combos that finish with them temporarily summonering a primal that would perform an action be it a burst attack, aoe or some form of utility.They are essential a spell weaver that has summons completing their combos.

As for the renaming of SMN, I don't like Necromancer. I do see the reasoning behind it but I don't like it mainly because I don't think it pairs well with SCH. I think Shaman would be better. Based on what I know a shaman can channel/summon spirits and can even enter trace like states. Though shamans are mainly healers there is no reason why they can't be a dps. I mean a SCH is a healer but it's spreading diseases and casting field of shadows.

[Capriana]

I think Shaman would be better. Based on what I know a shaman can channel/summon spirits and can even enter trace like states. Though shamans are mainly healers there is no reason why they can't be a dps. I mean a SCH is a healer but it's spreading diseases and casting field of shadows.

I don't think I have ever seen a Shaman job in any of the final fantasy games, but could be wrong.

Secondly, I think if we get a Necromancer job it has to be similar to the one in FF V:

The downside to the Necromancer is their inherent undead status, making healing them a chore. Various methods can be used to bypass this, such as White Wind or the Necromancer's Drain Touch skill.

Oh .. the salt ... the SALT.

[Natsuno]

I like summoner as is, but this tread got me thinking on how to move it away from it's arcanist or "necromancer" feel. I have a couple of ideas.

The first would be to flat out replace the base spells one at a time via job quests, either as part of an expansion or retroactively. For example, Bio could be morphed into an Ifrit flavoured spell when we learn Titan-egi, miasma would become a Titan themed spell when we get his egi, and a wind based spell could replace Bio II upon getting Garuda-egi.

Tri-disaster would therefore be a tri-elemental/primal attack instead. Miasma II could be changed into a Ramuh style EMP if there is a part of his territory that isn't infused with bahamut aether (I'm thinking just inside ala mhigo, maybe), because HW SMN lore (how far does Bahamut's aether reach across the world anyway?) :/.

The second would be learning different stances or aspects like the Astrogogian Sects. Our base spells would be infused with <insert primal> aether, possibly changing their name/appearance/effect/secondary effect into moves themed after the primal whose aether we are currently aspected to.

The new moves that replace the old wouldn't necessarily have to be DoTs either, they could be direct damage spells that interact with each other in a different way, or have CDs.

I don't pretend to know if it is doable currently from a programming perspective, but if WoW can make Immolate turn into Corruption or Doom based on you spec, or Arcane Shot become Sidewinder via a talent choice, then it should be doable.

Just to reiterate, I am fine with summoner as is, these are just a couple of random ideas I thought I'd share.