Dam. meter

[akaneakki]

Skips are there for a season. It pays for great play but also those for who cant do mechanic and do it in echo. Its true.

[dragonseth07]

It's not impossible to improve without a parser. But it is significantly more difficult, because of the data you can gather and immediately put to use.

[bardaboo]

@ThirdChild. Ok we have 1 person so far. The things i listed are very possible w/o a parser of course. So good on you.
The point of all my questions was to filter out good players from bad. To me it seems most of the players in here are afraid of parsers because they don't want to get booted from dungeons. Anyone who is good at their job shouldn't be concerned.
So. Question for you. Why do you not want in game parsers?

[Ama_Hamada]

I do. Cleared all of Coil and Alexander without a parser.
I did once, and didn't feel I personally gained much from it. Practice and some trial and error proved more effective in learning and refining my rotation. But then again, that would imply that it's entirely possible for someone to actually learn to perform well without a parser. . .
No, I know exactly what stats I should have and have geared effectively for that.I have a free, no TP aoe, on top of all other aoe skills I have.
No, I think SSS is pretty mad as a measuring tool all around.
If you really want to nitpick, one could filter the battle log and do the math themselves. Lots of work, but doable.

And for your "real" question, I care very much about my own personal performance. I don't carry, and won't be carried. I have always sought ways to improve even without being able to use a parser, and at this point, anyone who wishes to play their job well knows that pure item level does not beat proper stats.

You make the VERY wrong assumption through your post that console players and people against parsers are content with being subpar. You make the further wrong assumption that simply having/adding/supporting parsers will make you a better player. If you're going to try to make critical points and ask questions to support it, don't make assumptions.

I always did enjoy your postings and this is another that stands out. I am not the "best" but I care about my performance and do better then most. I do not need a praser to tell me this but it was interesting to see when I got a friend that used one and show me.

@ThirdChild. Ok we have 1 person so far. The things i listed are very possible w/o a parser of course. So good on you.
The point of all my questions was to filter out good players from bad. To me it seems most of the players in here are afraid of parsers because they don't want to get booted from dungeons. Anyone who is good at their job shouldn't be concerned.
So. Question for you. Why do you not want in game parsers?

you need to read back, because that was answered:

I don't think the issue lies in people being exposed and shamed for underperforming, as that already does happen even without parsers.

What I think many are concerned with is areas where someone IS legitimately trying their best, but perhaps isn't "optimal" and getting absolutely dumped on for it. This is in now way defending mediocrity or performing at a "good enough to clear" level. This is entirely an issue of parsers becoming the enforced standard. This is "Skip soar or disband". This is "Must have purple parses on FFLogs". . . Neither of those being absolute necessity to actually clear the content at hand. And the community already has enough of a problem going to extremes to get things done.

I won't discredit people who legitimately use them to improve their performance, but if you're that dedicated to performing your best, and you know your job/rotation well, a parser won't offer you much more than you likely already have a solid grasp of.

Why I do not want OFFICIAL prasers is because how the community acts now with the unofficial ones. The ones that offer advice do so with out them, while people with them, just harass people. THAT IS WHY! the community already proved they cannot handle it.

[Driavna]

Why I do not want OFFICIAL prasers is because how the community acts now with the unofficial ones. The ones that offer advice do so with out them, while people with them, just harass people. THAT IS WHY! the community already proved they cannot handle it.

Again more emotional stuff, anything in the game be use to harass people, period. Using your logic chat and names should be turned off while using duty finder, because people can use it to harras you for fail a mechanic.

[Kosmos992k]

Again more emotional stuff, anything in the game be use to harass people, period. Using your logic chat and names should be turned off while using duty finder, because people can use it to harras you for fail a mechanic.

Humans are emotional creatures, to deny that is illogical.

[Ama_Hamada]

Again more emotional stuff, anything in the game be use to harass people, period. Using your logic chat and names should be turned off while using duty finder, because people can use it to harras you for fail a mechanic.

You are not understanding how people act. Some are simply not going to care what that number says. I posted earlier how I remarked to someone pulling low DPS and he said no one told him before it is just a game and did not care. So what is going to happen, if prasers where official will only provoke more fights between people that "do not care" / casual and the "elite". Prasers may also provoke those that are somewhat good and can "top" most random people in DF to start kicking people just because of numbers.

has nothing to do with feelings, its just a simple case it brings more harm then good to the community.

Parsers aren't the problem, the human element is, and SE knows exactly who they're dealing with. Give a man the opportunity to do wrong, and you'd be amazed how many actually do. Give an arsonist matches and watch the world burn.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

@ThirdChild. Ok we have 1 person so far. The things i listed are very possible w/o a parser of course. So good on you.
The point of all my questions was to filter out good players from bad. To me it seems most of the players in here are afraid of parsers because they don't want to get booted from dungeons. Anyone who is good at their job shouldn't be concerned.
So. Question for you. Why do you not want in game parsers?

Thing is, I'm actually not against parsers. But I'm not trying to ignore the human nature that'd be in full effect with them. Please refer to my earlier comment about a PvP situation. It may be different from PvE and scripted encounters, but the main point is someone tried to contend that a person who did slightly more damage than I did in a long match but scored no kills (versus my slightly less damage and 10 kills, the most of my team) performed better. Were you going to look at the damage alone, sure you could say that person did "better". What that damage actually amounted to is what really tells the real tale there. And let's not act like it's not easy to pad and fluff numbers. Let's also not act like people won't simply take things at face value "because the parser says".

Simply put: the parser might say Player A deals more damage than Player B, but Player B performed mechanics with better technical expertise, perhaps at times sacrificing damage to ensure a critical mechanic - like T8's Allagan Field on a melee - didn't complicate or wipe the party. If it's all numbers, sure take Player A and enjoy dealing with that, especially if you're a healer. Player B isn't a lesser player nor worth being overlooked or excluded (like people would do, let's not kid ourselves) simply because of numbers.

Parsers aren't the problem, the human element is, and SE knows exactly who they're dealing with. Give a man the opportunity to do wrong, and you'd be amazed how many actually do. Give an arsonist matches and watch the world burn.

[Ama_Hamada]

Oh I understand how people act and again is all about "if". Yeah, there are dicks out there, so what? Block, report and move along with your life. As I said, with your logic anything that can be used in a wrong way should be remove.

They removed the chat from "arenas" and people spam a certain emote to point out mistakes from other players, dicks keep harassaing but everyone suffer without aproper way to communicate.

it is not IF! People have prasers already! No one ever ever gave advice from having a praser, it was always used as a harassment tool. Making it official will only make it worse. The community already proved they can't handle official prasers.

Thing is, I'm actually not against parsers. But I'm not trying to ignore the human nature that'd be in full effect with them. Please refer to my earlier comment about a PvP situation. It may be different from PvE and scripted encounters, but the main point is someone tried to contend that a person who did slightly more damage than I did in a long match but scored no kills (versus my slightly less damage and 10 kills, the most of my team) performed better. Were you going to look at the damage alone, sure you could say that person did "better". What that damage actually amounted to is what really tells the real tale there. And let's not act like it's not easy to pad and fluff numbers. Let's also not act like people won't simply take things at face value "because the parser says".

Simply put: the parser might say Player A deals more damage than Player B, but Player B performed mechanics with better technical expertise, perhaps at times sacrificing damage to ensure a critical mechanic - like T8's Allagan Field on a melee - didn't complicate or wipe the party. If it's all numbers, sure take Player A and enjoy dealing with that, especially if you're a healer. Player B isn't a lesser player nor worth being overlooked or excluded (like people would do, let's not kid ourselves) simply because of numbers.

Parsers aren't the problem, the human element is, and SE knows exactly who they're dealing with. Give a man the opportunity to do wrong, and you'd be amazed how many actually do. Give an arsonist matches and watch the world burn.

Like this post, I seen people do this with healing, even on the PvP forums. People do not understand SCH cannot inflate numbers like whm does, ugh.

Naturally I couldn't touch this topic without addressing parsing, and of course I agree that a fully featured recount style in game parser wouldn't go down well. Personally I feel that the harassment angle is significantly overplayed though, the tools to wave unwanted data in peoples faces have been in place for years now, this would really just even the playing field between PC and console players, as long as it was made clear that harassing a player over damage numbers regardless of it's source is still a reportable offence, things would be fine in my eyes.

People do not care if something can be reported, they will keep going on. I was in a MSQ once where someone was pushing numbers on someone and some others told them to stop because it can be reported, and they kept doing it.

[Dualgunner]

it is not IF! People have prasers already! No one ever ever gave advice from having a praser, it was always used as a harassment tool. Making it official will only make it worse. The community already proved they can't handle official prasers.

That is a very broad statement. I assume you have figures to back that up, and of course given the absoluteness of your statement even one instance of a parser being used to help give better advice would prove you wrong.