Dam. meter

[Ama_Hamada]

That is a very broad statement. I assume you have figures to back that up, and of course given the absoluteness of your statement even one instance of a parser being used to help give better advice would prove you wrong.

Are you joking?
No one used a praser to help someone in random DFs, only as an harassment tool. The ONLY time I seen it used as a help tool when someone asks for advance and hint asking if someone has one. Otherwise people say nothing or use it as a harassment tool. Clearly your post to me is not going to change matters so I am not sure what the point is. SE knows people can't handle having an official meter and I know that is true with what I seen in random DFs.

[Sebazy]

it is not IF! People have prasers already! No one ever ever gave advice from having a praser, it was always used as a harassment tool. Making it official will only make it worse. The community already proved they can't handle official prasers.

I'm really sorry that you feel that way but I can 100% assure you from personal experience that you are incorrect here. I'm not crazy enough to suggest that harassment never happens but I'll touch on that more in a moment.

On the flipside though, you will frequently see more casual players and raiders getting help from FC/team mates with parsers to optimise their performance so to say that 'No one ever gave advice from having a parser' is utterly untrue. Both parses and logs can be used as a tool to further both your own understanding as well as to pool that knowledge with others.

For example, early on in 3.0 I released a series of video guides with numbers and logs demonstrating how a SCH could do similar or even more damage numbers across the roulette dungeons than many actual DPS jobs. No one was flamed, no one was harassed. This was just data being presented in a clear and understandable format to help others improve their standard of play and speed up their dungeon runs significantly. There are many other examples of data helping even casual players in this game even right here on these forums. Damage rotations, fight strategies and such will all stem from this scene as well. It really isn't the boogieman you seem to feel it is.

People do not care if something can be reported, they will keep going on. I was in a MSQ once where someone was pushing numbers on someone and some others told them to stop because it can be reported, and they kept doing it.

Er, correct me if I'm wrong, but a 7-14 day temp ban generally makes people take notice pretty quickly, if people report it (which they do already), and GMs enforce it (which they also do already), players with common sense will quickly get a handle on what's acceptable and what isn't. Players without tact or common sense will quickly get banned. Win/win for everyone I'd say <3

No one used a praser to help someone in random DFs, only as an harassment tool.

And no one has ever used reddit for anything other than funny cat pictures.

I can respect more casual players having a fear of parsers, but participating in a discussion like this without taking an open mind isn't especially productive =(

[Ama_Hamada]

I'm really sorry that you feel that way but I can 100% assure you from personal experience that you are incorrect here. I'm not crazy enough to suggest that harassment never happens but I'll touch on that more in a moment.

On the flipside though, you will frequently see more casual players and raiders getting help from FC/team mates with parsers to optimise their performance so to say that 'No one ever gave advice from having a parser' is utterlyuntrue. Both parses and logs can be used as a tool to further both your own understanding as well as to pool that knowledge with others.

For example, early on in 3.0 I released a series of video guides with numbers and logs demonstrating how a SCH could do similar or even more damage numbers across the roulette dungeons than many actual DPS jobs. No one was flamed, no one was harassed. This was just data being presented in a clear and understandable format to help others improve their standard of play and speed up their dungeon runs significantly. There are many other examples of data helping even casual players in this game even right here on these forums. Damage rotations, fight strategies and such will all stem from this scene as well. It really isn't the boogieman you seem to feel it is.



Er, correct me if I'm wrong, but a 7-14 day temp ban generally makes people take notice pretty quickly, if people report it (which they do already), and GMs enforce it (which they also do already), players with common sense will quickly get a handle on what's acceptable and what isn't. Players without tact or common sense will quickly get banned. Win/win for everyone I'd say <3



And no one has ever used reddit for anything other than funny cat pictures.

I can respect more casual players having a fear of parsers, but participating in a discussion like this without taking an open mind isn't especially productive =(

Taking random DF groups, not FC mates and statics, in those cases, it is always harassment. I am sure that is the focus of SE not allowing them as well. We all know a static would help each other???? So it should been clear what I was saying.

[bardaboo]

Let's not forget when you are in a dungeon with someone that is pulling tge group down, their excuse for not improving is "i don't have time to look up guides bla bla." Ok so obviously they don't care enough. But if they had a number right in their face they might miiiiight try to make that number higher.

I know people can be jerks, but you don't need a parser to be a jerk. Pluuuusss number shaming can still be considered harassment. So really you guys have no actual solid argument against this feature.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Let's not forget when you are in a dungeon with someone that is pulling tge group down, their excuse for not improving is "i don't have time to look up guides bla bla." Ok so obviously they don't care enough. But if they had a number right in their face they might miiiiight try to make that number higher.

I know people can be jerks, but you don't need a parser to be a jerk. Pluuuusss number shaming can still be considered harassment. So really you guys have no actual solid argument against this feature.

The problem's bigger than that. Just as you make the point that someone doesn't need a parser to be a jerk, a parser isn't going to magically make someone who doesn't care to try suddenly want to.

Simply put: Those who want to perform well will find a way, parser or not. Those who don't care, won't care, parser or not. There WILL be people who fall in the gap between, and things like "Skip Soar or disband", "Must have [inflexible overstandard] or kick" will just get worse. It's gonna be pretty lame when only the absolute top 1% are either doing it all or getting nowhere because they're too busy overlooking people who are perfectly capable, even good, but not the best.

[akaneakki]

I know people can be jerks, but you don't need a parser to be a jerk.

I find some people on this forum ''jerks'' and they don't even use a parser.

[Driavna]

Oh I understand how people act and again is all about "if". Yeah, there are dicks out there, so what? Block, report and move along with your life. As I said, with your logic anything that can be used in a wrong way should be remove.

They removed the chat from "arenas" and people spam a certain emote to point out mistakes from other players, dicks keep harassaing but everyone suffer without a proper way to communicate.

[Greedalox]

I agree with the premise that anything can be abused to abuse and harass, which is exactly why I don't think that harassment is a key point against the implementation of anything in an MMO. The situation and question at hand should be the weighing of (Or lack of) merits by a proposed idea. What is there to gain and what is there to lose with the introduction of a parser if we take "harassment" and it's boundless POTENTIAL influence on all facets of the game. I'd say there's much more to gain than there is to lose.

If harassment was the say all, be all final verdict on the implementation of functions in this game, we wouldn't have emotes, /tells, vote kick, friend invites. These are just a few things that get abused to harass others, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be in the game.

So for the people who are wholeheartedly against official parsers, if you remove harassment from your own equation, what are the downsides that outweigh the potential increase in players effectiveness?

[Llan]

-snip-

Alright.
We already have a 3rd party that can be used by people that really care about it adding a built-in one would be redundant and a waste of resources since it's only really relevant to mid to hardcore content.
It is already possible to detect people that aren't performing that well without parsers in casual end-game content, usually it won't really matter that much if there is a person slacking off on DPS depending on what you're doing. Not to the point that it'll cause you to not complete said content with ease.
People can also use said 3rd party parser to improve their own DPS if they wish to do so. Even though the natural evolution is a lot more fun and rewarding.
The community itself is split between yes and no thus implementing said feature would upset a portion of the community whilst not implementing it can be less harmful since there is already a 3rd party one available. With all due respect, your point isn't valid.

[Greedalox]

Alright.
We already have a 3rd party that can be used by people that really care about it adding a built-in one would be redundant and a waste of resources since it's only really relevant to mid to hardcore content.
It is already possible to detect people that aren't performing that well without parsers in casual end-game content, usually it won't really matter that much if there is a person slacking off on DPS depending on what you're doing. Not to the point that it'll cause you to not complete said content with ease.
People can also use said 3rd party parser to improve their own DPS if they wish to do so. Even though the natural evolution is a lot more fun and rewarding.
The community itself is split between yes and no thus implementing said feature would upset a portion of the community whilst not implementing it can be less harmful since there is already a 3rd party one available. With all due respect, your point isn't valid.

Many people aren't comfortable using third party software. That could be a huge alleviation in itself. It being more used in midcore/hardcore content doesn't mean that it wouldn't have use in softcore content because unless you're already 100% efficient (Good luck) with your class, there's room to improve- unless you're one of those people that believe a 90 minute dungeon run is just as good as a 20 minute one because it got done.

It's also not the point to "detect people not performing well", it's about having the tools to help yourself up and actually perform well. You wouldn't have to detect others doing poorly and inform them because they would already have their own numbers on their screen.

"Natural evolution and course of learning is more fun anyways"... for you personally.

The community is split between yes and no which is why I'm inquiring in the first place, and so far the main concern is harassment which my previous post I've tried to illustrate that everything can and is abused, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have a place in the game.