Job Auto-leveling: Yes or No?

[Lienn]

You really shouldn't go around forums spitting out stuff like this and not include quotes or links to where you saw it. This is just terrible. WHY in the world would they completely destroy our progress of the year and just delete these classes. If you cannot provide links or proof of your sayings here I will take it as you have no idea what you are talking about. I am sure others will agree with me when I say that it is people like yourself that are trying to ruin this game.

I never said they would "destroy" all like you said. Simple the MRD lv will become WAR lv, GLA lv become PLD lv and so on...just like the actions and stuff. Still, the complete removal of all 7th umbral era content, which might include a large part of the game lore as a whole, was already officially announced a bit after the 2.0 announcement. Wipe =/= merging jobs with the respective classes.

[Etheos]

I never said they would "destroy" all like you said. Simple the MRD lv will become WAR lv, GLA lv become PLD lv and so on...just like the actions and stuff. Still, the complete removal of all 7th umbral era content, which might include a large part of the game lore as a whole, was already officially announced a bit after the 2.0 announcement. Wipe =/= merging jobs with the respective classes.

And yet you manage to do it again....SHOW YOUR SOURCES OR DON'T RESPOND!

[Lienn]

And yet you manage to do it again....SHOW YOUR SOURCES OR DON'T RESPOND!

oh, what a lazy lalafat we have here...just go to dev tracker and read the stuff. But i know you won't so here:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post400289

But i'm sure you won't read it too...so i'll just paste it here:

However, after version 2.0 launches, some content will be removed or changed for quests related to "The Seventh Umbral Era" as well as new Primal content. Expect this new content to introduce items and achievements that otherwise can’t be obtained in version 2.0 (or after).

And after this they kept talking about it in interviews and yadda yadda...search by yourself! =P

[Answa]

oh, what a lazy lalafat we have here...just go to dev tracker and read the stuff. But i know you won't so here:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post400289

But i'm sure you won't read it too...so i'll just paste it here:

However, after version 2.0 launches, some content will be removed or changed for quests related to "The Seventh Umbral Era" as well as new Primal content. Expect this new content to introduce items and achievements that otherwise can’t be obtained in version 2.0 (or after).

And after this they kept talking about it in interviews and yadda yadda...search by yourself! =P

How in the hell did you stretch this into jobs substituting classes?

Massively: Will the jobs that are previewed going to be linked to specific classes, or will they be somewhat more flexible?

Naoki Yoshida: To answer that question, we're just going to go into a little bit of an explanation of this job system. Let's say you're looking to become a Paladin and unlock the job. What we're planning is that you can get your Gladiator to level 30 and you also get your Marauder to level 15 -- and please note that these numbers are not set in stone. When both conditions have been met, you can unlock a quest, which you can accept to unlock the Paladin job.

Once that class is unlocked, you will earn a job stone (again, not necessarily the final name). When you equip that, you can change your class into the Paladin job. Beyond the level 30 quest through which you get the job stone, there will also be quests at, say, levels 35, 40, 45, and 50 -- just as an example -- that deliver you the story of the Paladin job.

The level of the jobs will always be connected with the base class, so by earning experience as a Gladiator, you will make your Paladin stronger, and any experience earned as a Paladin will go toward your Gladiator experience. There's no necessity to go and raise your Paladin separately from your Gladiator. However, there will be job-specific weapons and armor, and to unlock these, you'll need to do the quests after unlocking the jobs. Similarly, weaponskills and abilities won't be earned through levels but by doing those quests. Experience is how you improve your classes, but the quest chains are how you improve your jobs.

Obviously, the question is what's different between a class and a job. After discussing with the battle team how we wanted to do this, we decided that for light parties and casual play, we wanted players using the class system where you can freely mix and match abilities to make an all-around type of character. Jobs we want to make more specialized, like you see in a lot of other MMOs, such as where the Paladin would be designed as a tank. They have special abilities to defend other party members, and while attack power might be lower, they'll have abilities that will enhance defense and allow them to play a certain role in their party.

Of course, during this job system, to make sure that the job is specialized, there won't be as much freedom in using abilities of other classes. Players will be able to play a specific role, and with that they'll be able to know their roles in high-end battles that require more tactics and a more specific type of playstyle, rather than solo battles, which are more open and where we'd rather have players be using the class system to meet a more flexible style.

The best way of thinking about it is probably two different modes of character fighting style depending on what type of content you'll be playing.

Source.

CURRENT EVENTS that won't make sense to retain (i.e. impending doom) would be retarded to keep. But the lore itself will definitely stay. It won't be a different world. It'll be a changed world.

[Etheos]

oh, what a lazy lalafat we have here...just go to dev tracker and read the stuff. But i know you won't so here:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post400289


But i'm sure you won't read it too...so i'll just paste it here:

However, after version 2.0 launches, some content will be removed or changed for quests related to "The Seventh Umbral Era" as well as new Primal content. Expect this new content to introduce items and achievements that otherwise can’t be obtained in version 2.0 (or after).

And after this they kept talking about it in interviews and yadda yadda...search by yourself! =P

Wasn't so hard to show your sources now was it? I did however read multiple interviews, that exact post, the lodestone announcements and never came across information that says what you say above: "GLA LVL will become PLD LVL...". I am simply stating that there has been no official words that say that. If you care to prove me wrong, feel free. I will gladly take responsibility of stupidity if I have over read this and will in fact tug on your rub.

[Gennosuke]

Here's my thoughts on this.

While i agree with OP that jobs need their own effort to give them more meaning and sense of fulfillment. However, as i mentioned before, this thread as many others prove how problematic this new Job system will be to the game when added as a 2nd layer on top of an existing class system.

I think this is essentially the biggest challenge SE will face with this game, nevermind 2.0, without a good well thought-out and satisfying battle system, this game will suffer grave consequences as this really is the core of the game.

It almost seems like SE is confused with their decision to put in both Armoury system and Job system in the same time. Where has this ever happened in the history of FF? Logical and normal way about it is to have one battle system in place. Let alone the fact that it helps avoid many other issues.

Funny enough to note, even looking at the poll rates, it's evident people as well are just as confused and you have a 50/50 rate, currently about 36 likes on each side. Why do you think? I personally think 'cause it doesn't make sense, bad game decision. People naturally want to enjoy their new jobs and experience them at their early stages and gain that sense of fulfillment, in the same time however they dont want to go through grind from scratch only to get an optimized version of a duplicate class counter-part, which is also a valid point.

So SE.. What real purpose or justification is there for having a job system in the game when you have a class system which is essentially the same?

Optimize for party play? Really? I really don't buy that.
The thought seems ridiculous to actually want to put in a significant amount of development and resources into a new job system including new mechanics, balance, purpose, quests, lore, creativity, etc.. all for the sake of optimizing party play. Not to mention the obvious fact that there are so many other issues the game is facing currently and could use more attention.

I mean since Class system is facing a complete overhaul with the intention to have it more unqiue and serve a purpose, why even bother with the job system? Abilities are already getting restricted to be class only, and all abilities will be revised and fixed up.
So what's the big idea?

Personally, only logical explanation i see is that new Dev team realized the Armory system fails in many aspects and is short sighted by Tanaka and have introduced the Job system which should have been there since the start, because simply it works as it did in the other FF's. The only prob is they are stuck with a playerbase who have multiple classes leveled at 50 who got used to their versatility and would be a hard decision for Yoshi to pull the trigger on the Class system with his 'i dont want to take anything away from players' attitude, which while i respect, can also hinder the game's real chance of succeeding. Some level of sacrifice is inevitable in the process of fixing this game up.

Job System pros:

1) More unique/satisfying
2) Serves a specific purpose
3) Works way better for party play
4) Can easily have subjob type system to keep some flexibility at a reasonable level.
5) Works better for casual play, rather than having to level all classes to play your role properly and be in demand/worthy enough for real content.

This is where i would like to agree with Lienn, i would like to think this may well possibly be a transitional state until version 2.0 comes where classes/lore will be phased out.

I hope it is, if not, i hope they come to their senses Asap before they dig themselves a bigger hole, and just come back to one system that addresses all the issues above.
i.e Remove classes in the wake of the job system.

Why have Monk when you Pugilist? or White Mage when you have Conjurer? or Paladin when you have Gladiator? or Warrior when you have Marauder?

Redundancy is really not good. Not for it's practicality, nor for the image of the game. Keep the game simple and meaningful.
Think FFT. I think a system similar to that would work best for this game.

[Airget]

What if instead of "levels" for jobs why not something like FF tactics where you earn ability points while you have said job active in which you can choose how you wish to customize your job. At the same time, the guild marks used for said class could be used to obtain additional abilities for the job, rather then make it purely leveled based. Perhaps then each person's "job" could be unique where one paladin might have more curative properties while another person's paladin might be more defensive based.

[Onidemon]

Like this post if you feel Jobs SHOULD NOT have thier own EXP separate from classes The way it is currently being planned. Job level will automatically become whatever the respective class level is.

SE wants Jobs to be a specialization of a class. Not a class of thier own. It just adds a specialty to you exisiting class, just like talents in WOW add a specialization to your class. They HAVE to level together. I think people get it confused because they think of it too much as it was in FFXI. It's not the same things guys, jobs in XIV does not = jobs in XI. Totally different concept.

[Dekken]

Quick leveling paves an easy enough path for incompetence as it is. I'm all about being able to progress with a casual style of playing but the idea of implementing auto-level I believe is horrible. There would be less incentive to learn a job, let alone becoming a well rounded player. If you want to automatically max things out, play a single player game that accepts cheat codes.

A leveling system creates goals and a sense of community for players, bypassing that would be the worst thing you can do in a game that relies on interaction with other players. It would accelerate the worst aspects of power-leveling. I am all for a level-sync system like FFXI had, where you can sync down to the level of lower players. That is a much more constructive way to make a more inclusive gaming environment.

[Coglin]

SE wants Jobs to be a specialization of a class. Not a class of thier own. It just adds a specialty to you exisiting class, just like talents in WOW add a specialization to your class. They HAVE to level together. I think people get it confused because they think of it too much as it was in FFXI. It's not the same things guys, jobs in XIV does not = jobs in XI. Totally different concept.

Actually this is the exact opposit of what SE wants...Not sure where you get your information from.....but the devs said this specifically : ( Here is the link to the cpy/pasted info below)http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...form-Blueprint


Jobs
The job system - that series-defining trademark - will be implemented in FINAL FANTASY XIV (details such as specific jobs TBA). Quests to unlock each job will become available once you have reached a certain rank in the corresponding class.
Rather than being advanced versions of classes, we would like players to think of jobs as specialized playing styles optimized for partying. While playing as a particular job will render you unable to equip certain actions of other classes, you will be compensated with access to exclusive actions, which can be acquired through quests.

In practice, players will find the existing classes effective when playing solo or in certain party setups. Jobs, however, will shine in party situations where specific skill sets are demanded. Now, you didn’t hear this from me, but there are also rumors circulating that quests for obtaining job-exclusive equipment are also in the pipes.
We at the development team are currently hard at work on the job system, and expect to have details to share with you soon.