Put back Extreme trial on raid finder again...please

[HyoMinPark]

Snip Snip.

Ex primals are incredibly different from just regular duties. Some that are not even relevant anymore still have mechanics that, if one person messes up, can wipe the entire group (Thordan Ex, Sephirot Ex).

The purpose of individuals making a PF for a farm party is to run the primal as many times as they can, as quickly as possible, with great DPS and limited mistakes. When individuals want to teach, they join Clear/Learning PFs. I've seen it all the time; I do it. But when people want to farm for weapons or for mounts, having a new player sneak into the party is going to prevent them for achieving their goal: to farm.

Ex primals take a while to explain, and usually there have to be multiple wipes for people to finally understand "Oh! That's how you do it!" or "That's what I was doing wrong." Most parties that still attempt to farm after helping a new person clear rarely seem to even get the clear in the first place. Because the new player dies to mechanics a lot, people get impatient, and they drop the group.

They took away the one feature that could guarantee no new players could sneak into farm parties by removing the Ex primals from Raid Finder to Duty Finder. I can't tell you the number of times I had people sneak into parties I joined, and we got nowhere. Then the group dropped, I'm without a single successful run much less a mount, and then I have to start/search for a new farm party.

If they want to move the Ex Primals and Savage into DF that's fine. But please give players the options from Raid Finder: Duty Complete, Duty Incomplete, Practice, etc..

EDIT: People keep saying that everyone's time is equally important, and that players that have cleared content should be considerate and accommodate those that haven't cleared, but it also goes the other way. New players should respect the wishes of a FARM party by not joining in the first place. Farm parties are not the place to get a clear.

People say that farm parties need to make PF because that's what it's there for. Guess what: it's also there for people to make CLEAR and LEARNING parties. It's there for all groups of players to use. DF, RF, or no RF, I would still want the option for Duty Complete or Duty Incomplete. This isn't even something that affects me (I have all the HW mounts), and I'm still for it.

I'm a mentor as well, have been for a while. If I want to teach, or feel like helping players clear content, I look for clear parties and join them, offering and and all advice I can. Some days, I don't want to teach (those days I just turn my crown off). I want to farm. Or get things done. And it's easier to get through content (usually) with those that are proficient in the fight (i.e., have it on farm).

[bswpayton]

Ex primals are incredibly different from just regular duties. Some that are not even relevant anymore still have mechanics that, if one person messes up, can wipe the entire group (Thordan Ex, Sephirot Ex).

The thing is tho we all know whats about to happen to this content its gona go unsync in like two months so putting it in duty finder now is more than fair to do so. I understand that one person can mess up a whole party trust me I know Ive never joined a farm and got all my clears in learning parties are with friends. But I dont think its unreasable with just a small window for people that want sync clears to have the chance for them in duty finder.

I can understand zur its still relevant but the others are not so I dont see the problem here. And dont understand why this thread is going because the people that are still tryin to do this now are doing so with the knowledge that they could easily wait to do it when it goes unsync , but they are makin their last push and after all this time it shouldnt even matter.

[HyoMinPark]

snip.

The idea that this content will be "irrelevant" and "unsynced" in 2 months can have zero effect on how difficult the fight can be for randoms, with no communication, who refuse to communicate, or listen to advice, or whatever. Irrelevancy does not necessarily decrease difficulty. If anything, it can just make the fight more difficult because people are like "lol this content is 3 patches old and I'm ilvl 270 now. Mechanics are for cars we don't need to actually do them." Just look at Thordan Ex. I got my clear WAY after it was "irrelevant" and people still died to simple mechanics. Or refused to do simple things like run to THEIR quadrant or even just grab the towers. How hard is that to understand that the towers still need to be dealt with. Same with SephEx. My SephEx clear--very first one--did not happen because the DPS were like "He's at 5%, we can just ignore the wind." Guess what. Seph knocked all of us off the platform with 2% health left. 2%.

This situation at hand will not go away come 4.0. If they decide to get rid of the Raid Finder and exclusively use Duty Finder, they need to either include the Duty Complete/Incomplete options, or require groups to enter as a full party for a couple patch cycles. Just because people don't clear content on the first day doesn't mean they should be treated differently than if they clear two patch cycles later. People need to stop advocating that a newbie to a fight's time is more important to those who want to FARM the content, or do fast and easy clears with randoms or with a full group. I will help people learn; I can usually be extremely patient with helping new people. But I won't sacrifice my farm time just to help one player who thinks they should have the right to make farm parties give them their initial clear because we've had "months to farm the content."

If the concept of just running everything unsynced made fights easier, why do people STILL have difficulty in T9, and make threads asking for either nerfs or to remove this one instance from Wonderous Tails.

All of these Gartrs calling for EX raids to be put back in Raid Finder can just look in the mirror if they need to blame someone. You made the raid population as small as it is because you were too good to lower yourself to showing new players how things are done. Now you're complaining because new players don't know what to do in these raids?

I don't care if the primals are in RF or DF. But I do care about having the option of, if I want to PUG a piece of content, let me choose to enter the fight with 7 other people who have already cleared it. I may not have the time to sit there and wipe for 60 minutes because I was group with 3 new people who couldn't grasp mechanics. If I want to farm content for mounts or weapons or whatever, I should have the right to group with LIKE MINDED PEOPLE (randoms or premade) to do so. Just because I have cleared the content doesn't mean that now I have to hold everyone's hand every time I get a new person in a duty, and sacrifice my time and what I want to do for them. If I want to teach, I put on my little Burger King crown and join learning groups. If I don't feel like teaching that day, I turn it off. I may be a mentor but I'm not obligated to help every single new player clear every piece of content every time I'm grouped with them. Do I still give pointer? Yes. But I will not carry anyone through a fight, new or not. You want a carry? Then put up a PF saying you'll pay for it.

I give newbies that sneak into farms a chance when I probably shouldn't. Because I usually end up just wiping for an hour, making very little progress. And I'm not any closer to getting my mount or my weapons or whatever I wanted to farm from it. But I still give them the chance (and the benefit of the doubt) because I was new once, too. And I appreciated when people did that for me.

No one here is saying that us with clears are magically superior to those who don't have them. Do people like that exist? Unfortunately yes. But that doesn't mean we're all like that.

For the record, I have cleared exactly one Savage raid: A9S (I don't count A1S really because it's just so faceroll easy now, and if I were to PUG it synced down to minimum or maximum ilvl, I would probably not be able to clear it in a single pull because I am unfamiliar with the mechanics that are skipped). I am not a raider. I would like to find a static so that I can raid in Stormblood, but I in no way consider myself "better" than people who don't raid. Don't lump everyone into one group of people.

[bswpayton]

The idea that this content will be "irrelevant" and "unsynced" in 2 months can have zero effect on how difficult the fight can be for randoms, with no communication, who refuse to communicate, or listen to advice, or whatever. Irrelevancy does not necessarily decrease difficulty. If anything, it can just make the fight more difficult .

But the thing is this is that we're at the end of expansion stuff SE isnt gona just take a feature and do away with it people in this thread or overacting. The reason this was put in duty finder is because its to give more access to the content to everyone. The same reason why Alex has nerfs, they unlock the drops on shire weapons, are nerfing anima, uncapped dun scathe this is just obviously apart of the process.

There are tons and tons of no bonus parties you can pretty much say pf is pretty exclusive to those, and you may see the occasional learning party here or there. So its not like the opportunity to leave people out is still not there, its very much so there so I dont see the problem here. Everything else is opened up so why would it not make sense to put content in the duty finder.

And unsync pretty much guarantees success, those people complaining about t9 I dont even no what to say , cause I refuse to do the content because Im not gona do a raid unsync so I wouldnt know. Ill farm a bird or horse unsync but its no reason to do fights that have no rewards attach to them to create some sort of fabrication that your actually doing the content but thats another thing there. But again if someone has cleared these primals 50 times and havent gotten their drops , then they will have only 49 more unsync clears to do and they have their bird.

I dont really think they would care after beating the content to the ground that they got their bird after the content goes unsync. But some people like me want sync clears they want to exprience some what of a challenge while the content is still being ran by many sync, once unsync comes into effect that chance drasticly decreases while bird farmers chances drasticly increase. So Im sorry if we want to talk about fair then it seems pretty fair to me to give those with only two more months to get a sync clear a chance, as opposed to someone that can bird farm at anytime. If you disagree tell me how many, titan, ifrit, levi, king moogle, sync parties u see in the party finder today?

[HyoMinPark]

But the thing is this is that we're at the end of expansion stuff SE isnt gona just take a feature and do away with it people in this thread or overacting. The reason this was put in duty finder is because its to give more access to the content to everyone. The same reason why Alex has nerfs, they unlock the drops on shire weapons, are nerfing anima, uncapped dun scathe this is just obviously apart of the process.

Where content is located (DF or RF) in no way decreases access to said content. It's not like RF excludes people with no clears. Perhaps many don't use it to PUG fights, but PF groups use it to enter duties with the guarantee that everyone in the group has cleared. If people have difficulty pugging because of long queue times, make a PF.

There are tons and tons of no bonus parties you can pretty much say pf is pretty exclusive to those, and you may see the occasional learning party here or there. So its not like the opportunity to leave people out is still not there, its very much so there so I dont see the problem here. Everything else is opened up so why would it not make sense to put content in the duty finder.

I suppose your data center is different, because I see learning/clear parties every day in PF. And if there's not one in PF, then take the initiative and make one. Stop relying on others to do so. It's like the saying: if you want something done, better do it yourself. Don't wait for others.

And unsync pretty much guarantees success, those people complaining about t9 I dont even no what to say , cause I refuse to do the content because Im not gona do a raid unsync so I wouldnt know.

Not necessarily as I've been in unsynced PFs for T9 that don't clear it on the first pull, and people start rage-quitting. I wouldn't really call that "success." When I joined a PF to clear T9 unsynced, because a new person wanted their clear, we never did manage to get it for them because people didn't want to handle the meteors properly, or think that we can let the golems eat one another and still be okay. Yeah, no.

Even unsynced content can still have mechanics that cause a wipe. If not because the mechanic can't be cheesed (like T9 golems), then because of the sheer arrogance of people thinking they can ignore them because they're unsynced. Seen a lot of wipes to that on mechanics that are ridiculously easy to deal with.

Ill farm a bird or horse unsync but its no reason to do fights that have no rewards attach to them to create some sort of fabrication that your actually doing the content but thats another thing there.

That contradicts what you just said about how you won't do content unsynced. And it's not like Coil doesn't give you anything because it's dated content. You love lore and the game's story? Do Coil. One of the best stories in the game. You want that High Allagan Coat of Fending, but can't really afford the crafted one on the MB? Farm T9 for it, or for the Body aethersones and make it yourself/have a friend do it. Player wants to do unsynced runs of every turn (minus turn 3 usually), and get their clears? Hello poetic bonus. Just because you don't see rewards in unsynced, dated content doesn't mean that everyone else does.

I dont really think they would care after beating the content to the ground that they got their bird after the content goes unsync. But some people like me want sync clears they want to exprience some what of a challenge while the content is still being ran by many sync, once unsync comes into effect that chance drasticly decreases while bird farmers chances drasticly increase.

I would absolutely love to do content synced/minimum ilvl. I would love to experience T13 at its original difficulty. And T9. There are like-minded people out there who want the experience of synced content. How do you find them? Make a PF: "Minimum ilvl clear for [content]! Come have some fun!"

So Im sorry if we want to talk about fair then it seems pretty fair to me to give those with only two more months to get a sync clear a chance, as opposed to someone that can bird farm at anytime. If you disagree tell me how many, titan, ifrit, levi, king moogle, sync parties u see in the party finder today?

No one here is saying they don't give new people a chance just because the content is two-three patches old. How many posters said they frequently join clear/learning groups just to help? I don't care if they keep the Ex primals in DF or RF, but I would still like the Duty Complete/Duty Incomplete options to, at the very least, ensure my full premade farm party is actually full of people that have cleared the content. If you want to do synced clears, make a PF and look for like-minded individuals to join you. They are out there.

What's not fair is you saying that you have the right to unsynced/synced clears, and that randoms should abide by your wishes because the content is dated, and "irrelevant" now.

And not Ex primals per say, but I actually saw a few PFs for minimum ilvl Coil runs not too long ago. Again, if you want to do content a certain way, take the initiative and make a PF yourself. Heck, if we were on the same data center, and you made a PF for running T13 or Levi Ex or Ramuh Ex synced/minimum ilvl, I would be interested in joining. I have nothing else to do, and why not challenge myself. Because after doing content unsynced for so long, you forget that you have to adjust for synced run. Case in point: the Ifrit Ex I got in my Mentor roulette yesterday. People not wanting to follow mechanics because they think we can steamroll this synced like we can unsynced.