Put back Extreme trial on raid finder again...please

[OMGAFLYINGPENGUIN]

I like how this community somehow feels that everyone is obligated to help whether it is in our nature to do so, like it or not. And right now it is somehow our fault if we don't get our bird before it was brought to duty finder wow lolol.

Bswpayton you probably posted one of the most contradicting and hypocritical post in this thread, I have farmed my stuff through RF and even learnt the fights from there. You seem extremely aggressive towards a certain group of people (the veterans) but it still does not justify the choices of your words, well guess it was my fault I didn't get my birds before all of this, not RNG or not the people who outrolled me, yup totally my fault lol.

[Dualgunner]

I can't read this shit without winding myself, please please PLEASE learn to break up text walls

I just realized, you say 90% of people haven't cleared, but the 10% that have are somehow cutting the 90% out of clearing?

EDIT: I'll amend to insinuate, as the argument you're making relies on what I've said before as the premise, however I cannot find a direct quote of you saying that.

[Annoynymoose]

A wall of contradiction and hypocrisy ಠ_ಠ

You're one of the reason why we can't have nice things.

[Vidu]

I'm really sorry, I cant read all of this

I really cant. To much text, not enough structure, sense or order. But I feel, I really need to point out that "having access"-thing to you again:

RF was always open to everyone. Everyone was able to queue.
And if people who are wanting to clear have to wait longer the reason for that is that not enough people want to learn this content right now (and are queuing for it).
People who are queuing with the clear-option at the same time are not blocking their access to the content. They are simply queueing for something else - and thats okay!
(Really by this logic everyone who isnt queueing for Sastasha NM right now is blocking access to it for players who just started the game!)

You know why Rf "wasnt working" for those who wanted to get their kills? Not because of us mean, mean farmers and veterans who didnt wanted to help - but because most people who want to learn those fights wont do it in RF, just as they didnt do in DF. They know its pointless - 60 minutes arent enough for firsttimers to learn the whole fight, so why should they waste time on that? Specially when they want to practise later phases but RF/DF is almost guraanted to pair you up with someone who is completly new, putting the whole group - including those who made it to add-phase, final phase and even that vet, who wanted to help and already has their bird - back to square one.
I would advise any person who wants to get their clear to peak into DF/RF, leave after 15 minutes when they've gotten an idea of the first phase so they're less anxious about going in again - and then make a learning party.

The reason RF "wasnt working" for those who wanted to clear is the absence of people who wanted to clear aswell - it is not the absence of farm-people who wanted to get their fast kills in.
And that actually goes both ways - before they moved Sophia into DF I tried to queue up for a farm, just to see if it would still work. Estimated time: over 30 minutes. I decided I wouldnt wait that long, so I cnat tell you how long it would have took me to get in. But who do I blame for that now? All those filthy people who already have their birds and dont queue up anymore?

Your last sentence ("If you really think the rf works for new people are those whom havent cleared make an alt and just let your computer sit until the que pops for you or even one person joins the group.") even shows a general missunderstanding of the RF. I dont need to make a new character to have access to the "not-cleared"-queue. Clearing content doesnt immidiatly kick me out of that - I do, when I wish so, by selecting that option. If I feel like teaching, or maybe even practising a bit more myself, I can always go back into that queue.

RFs clear-option was opening up two things:
- a second lane for everyone who wanted to farm
- a method to make sure everyone in your PF-made-farm-party had the clear - if not, it wouldnt let you queue and you were able to sort that out before going in (-> seeing the bonus-message without a warning in a farm-group often leads to people leaving at the spot - and they have every right to do so. Sneaking into farm-parties is NOT cool - and it gets less cool when you dont even ask if its okay. On the other hand I have seen people in farm-parties more welcoming to help someone if they just did one thing: Spoke up before the bonus appeared. Even speaking up when we werent able to queue in, which is already damn fucking late, can do the trick.)

I want both those things back - and even if I dont get them back for HW-primals, I'd like to express here that I would be very pleased to see the upcoming SB-EX-primals be kept in RF (or any two-queue-system, really - again, dont care about the interface, just the function) until 5.0 really hits. And by really hits I mean: When we can indeed unsych those primals and no one would want to do them as they are anymore.
The two months you're talking about are two months that we're still playing. And I'm pretty sure everyone would like to spend them in the way they prefer and there is nothing wrong with that - however, those who would have prefered spending them in queue for "farm"-parties, cant do that anymore, while nothing or little has changed for those who just want to wipe in phase 1. And then hopefully go and make their learning party because anything else would be insane...

[Mejingjard]

I like how this community somehow feels that everyone is obligated to help whether it is in our nature to do so, like it or not.

Not the community, only spoiled little kids spitting at the face of players who learn fights, while expecting them to carry their ass later because , you know, they can't be bothered spending time to earn something

[bswpayton]

Not the community, only spoiled little

How people think that those who like duty finder want a carry is beyond me

[OMGAFLYINGPENGUIN]

How people think that those who like duty finder want a carry is beyond me

Same could be said to you. How you think that everything in RF is toxic, every veterans or "farmer" are perfectionist/elitist who are incapable of teaching and how not getting a bird mount before DF is beyond me. It is like you never really read through the point others have brought across for the past 19 pages, shoving all the valid reasoning aside and just went about what you think the Veteran community is like.

Look I don't know what you went through in your server to so pessimistic about the people you label as farmer and perfectionist, but I assure you that you are exaggerating it. Seriously do you have any idea how absurd this sounds, " people who control the pf and the rf are just not getting their way at the moment for two months and thats all".

If you claim savage and extreme trials to be so toxic and now that the "People who were initially controlling RF & PF" have moved to DF why are you even doing EX trials if you are trying to deter from toxicity yet claim that it is from these places is where toxicity is spewed from? You generalise things too easily, yet cry foul when claim that the elitist outcast the "casual" players?

Let me get one thing straight, the elitist players that made you this bitter does not represent the majority of the veterans, neither do you represent the players who you claim to be in the same category as you, because not everyone share the same opinion as you do. So stop being stereotypical.

[bswpayton]

Same could be said to you. How you think that everything in RF is toxic, every veterans or "farmer" are perfectionist/elitist who are incapable of teaching and how not getting a bird mount before DF is beyond me. It is like you never really read through the point others .

I have done my content with friends are fc members or in pf groups where for the most part people are super cool and chill if it doesn't work out it just doesn't. But lets be honest here if a brand new level one player where to glance at the pf when it has 20 or more parties up how would they get the impression that as far as high level content they would be accepted. Anyone that knows how to read can clearly see the writing on the wall in the pf that basically says as far as we are concerned dont even que up for this content.

People are really over exaggerating the amount of learning parties that are up at any given time on average there are way less learning parties than there are farm parties. The very next day after zur came out it was already parties saying to know the fight , actually some the very same day. And the very same people on here that are sayin they want that filter back for two months are also claiming that people just want a carry.

I dont know about other people but I main tanks or healers and nobody is carrying me through any content. I personally dont even count unsync clears nor clears where I was dead at the end of the fight as a clear so I certainly am not looking for a carry this assumption i just wrong. So that very accusation that people just need these great amazing vet players to clear content or they are doom is the same attitude thats in the pf.

People just need slots to fill up doesn't matter if you are new are vet whatever people just need access to content, the way most of the people in here would have it is the only access someone who doesnt know a fight is to make a learning party and thats it. But yet they are totally fine with having the rf locked up and the party finder locked up for themselves but everyone else must have a single option. Well SE has spoken and just like the nerfed the raids, nerfed all kinds of things they also made these primals more accessible I didnt say made it easier to clear because Im sure that it didnt.

But at this point when everything has been in your favor then why get upset when now the content is open for everyone, we both no its not gona change just because this thread is here. So why not just get over it , its two months, I will be fully aware that all new raids and primal in sb will be going right into rf.

Im ok with that I dont wana get rid of rf even tho I prefer duty finder, but I know it has its purpose so if people can be ok with knowing if they are slow to learn they will be excluded . Then why cant the opposition be ok with content thats already been out there now being more accessible to the masses?

[HyoMinPark]

I have done my content with friends are fc members or in pf groups where for the most part people are super cool and chill if it doesn't work out it just doesn't. But lets be honest here if a brand new level one player where to glance at the pf when it has 20 or more parties up how would they get the impression that as far as high level content they would be accepted. Anyone that knows how to read can clearly see the writing on the wall in the pf that basically says as far as we are concerned dont even que up for this content.

I'll be completely honest: I used to look at the PFs that read "FARM PARTY NO BONUS" et cetera, and think: "Wow... how will I ever get clears when people don't want bonuses? Why don't they want bonuses?" And then, a friend of mine said that he would help me get clears for Ex primals, because I had watched his static in SephEx back when it was first released, and I wanted to try it. He tossed a PF up, just me and him, and 6 other people (5 of whom I didn't know, and 1 I asked if he would help me) joined, and helped me get clears. They were under no obligation to join and help; I didn't feel like they owed me anything. And none of the them were expecting anything out of it, really, except maybe bonus tomes and, if they're really lucky, a lucky roll on a whistle.

Now that I am on the other side, I can completely understand the "FARM PARTY NO BONUS" PFs. I understand them completely. Because now, I am a player who would like to farm content, and get the loot I want without having to worry about people that are uncertain when it comes to the fight. If I want to help, I do as others did for me, and join random PFs, not expecting anything, just there to help because, well, why not? I don't have much else to do, so why not help people. Pay it forward.

But those "FARM PARTY NO BONUS" aren't there for the sole reason of excluding new people based on some massive ego of World First raiders. They're there so that people can farm content smoothly, and get what they want without being expected to teach people.

People are really over exaggerating the amount of learning parties that are up at any given time on average there are way less learning parties than there are farm parties.

Okay, so I guess the pictures I posted--the screenshots I posted--of PF on my Data Center is just an exaggeration? No, it's not. That's just a normal weekday Party Finder on Aether. There's always all sorts of stuff in there, from farms to clears to learning to Wonderous Tails to static recruitments. On weekends, it's even more busy. I guess your Data Center must be different, but don't use it as a way to generalize the rest.

The very next day after zur came out it was already parties saying to know the fight , actually some the very same day.

Is there a time frame where people aren't allowed to post farm PFs for new content or something? Do we have to wait two months before we can? No. If people clear on Day 1 and want to start farming, they have every right to do so. Same thing if people want to farm 3 patches after the content is released. They have that right.

And the very same people on here that are sayin they want that filter back for two months are also claiming that people just want a carry.

Because every person in this game wants to work hard to achieve goals, and not have content nerfed/rewards handed to them so that they don't have to do anything more than press 1-2-3? There are several people that just want others to carry them. I've encountered them, and I'm sure the other posters, and probably you, have encountered them as well. Regardless of content. Whether or not you noticed, that's another question. But it's easy to spot lazy people in Ex primals and Savage.

I dont know about other people but I main tanks or healers and nobody is carrying me through any content. So that very accusation that people just need these great amazing vet players to clear content or they are doom is the same attitude thats in the pf.

I'm sure many people main different jobs across the entire Trinity. I main BRD. But I also enjoy AST, WHM, and DRK. I also like DoL and DoH classes. And people ARE SAYING IN THIS THREAD THAT IT IS THE JOB OF MENTORS AND VETERANS TO CATER TO NEW PLAYERS. There are several posts that say that. Perhaps not so directly, but they still mean the same thing.

People just need slots to fill up doesn't matter if you are new are vet whatever people just need access to content, the way most of the people in here would have it is the only access someone who doesnt know a fight is to make a learning party and thats it. But yet they are totally fine with having the rf locked up and the party finder locked up for themselves but everyone else must have a single option. Well SE has spoken and just like the nerfed the raids, nerfed all kinds of things they also made these primals more accessible I didnt say made it easier to clear because Im sure that it didnt.

People do have access to content. The only thing that bars them from it, aside from things like minimum required ilvl or class/job level, is themselves. If they sit there and think that the Raid Finder is "locked up" and that Party Finder is "locked up," and refuse to take initiative by making their own clear/learning party, or finding friends from their FC or LS to help, that is on them. Not raiders. Not bird farmers. Not the system.

And the entire concept of "nerfing" content is to make it easier because people think it's too hard. When really, most the time, they just want to be able to semi-AFK during the fight while they watch Netflix or whatever. There are extremely lazy people in this world, and those are usually the ones demanding nerfs for content that doesn't need it. Most content outside of Ex primals and Savage is laughably easy; it's disappointing. Any content that was challenging, people complained until the devs did something. A good example of this is the Demon Wall boss in Amdapor Keep. It used to have bees as a mechanic, that you had to kill, or else get final stung, while also dodging the simple floor AOEs. You know, just like you have to kill the bees in 'Sunken Temple or Neverreap before they Final Sting the tank while avoiding the pretty orange circles on the ground. But people complained until they removed the bees, because it was "too hard, and essentially made the boss a joke, for undergearred and overgearred players. Personally, I'd like to see the bees return.

But, we gotta satisfy those that don't want to put forth more than a teeny bit of effort, if any at all. The bees that were in Amdapor Keep are the same as the bees that spawn during the first boss in Sunken Temple. An extremely simple mechanic to deal with: kill bees, then go back to smacking the boss. And, the thing with Amdapor Keep, is most people recommended LB-ing the bees, or, if DPS was high, just burning the Demon Wall and ignoring them. But, nope. Too hard. Pls nerf.

But at this point when everything has been in your favor then why get upset when now the content is open for everyone, we both no its not gona change just because this thread is here. So why not just get over it , its two months, I will be fully aware that all new raids and primal in sb will be going right into rf. Im ok with that I dont wana get rid of rf even tho I prefer duty finder, but I know it has its purpose so if people can be ok with knowing if they are slow to learn they will be excluded . Then why cant the opposition be ok with content thats already been out there now being more accessible to the masses?

The content was always open. Just because it was in Raid Finder and not Duty Finder doesn't mean that the content was closed off or restricted. The only HARD requirements for queuing into said content would be: to be level 60 and meet the minimum ilvl. Other requirements don't have anything to deal with queuing into the content. Skill is what is required for clears. Patience is what is required for teaching. And determination is what is required for farms with terrible drop rates, and suffering your own terrible, single digit loot rolls.

People are advocating for a permanent change, for a permanent removal of Raid Finder, and the options to filter the player base. Because they're under some misconception that there's a great divide between new players/casuals and people that raid/farm primals, or that new people deserve to have the chance to clear, and Duty Finder is the solution. Yes, they deserve a chance to clear. But primal farmers deserve a chance to farm.

And the developers do read these forums, and do consider some of the things posted here. They deserve to hear the voices from both sides. You want to post your thoughts, well so do we. And that's why we keep responding. And if we're supposed to "get over it," why don't you also "get over" the fact that your views are skewed by negative personal experiences and broad generalizations, and in NO WAY reflect the MAJORITY of new players. You say that you don't think new people need to have their hands held or whatever, but you continue to post about how hard it was for you to do certain content, how hard it is for newbies to find opportunities to do content, and how "restricted" and "controlled" Party Finder/Raid Finder/Duty Finder is.

The only thing holding these people back are themselves. The only restrictions are the ones people place on themselves. Reading your comments, I feel like you're under the impression that new people look at PF and just throw their hands up in the air: "Woe is me! Look at these farm parties in PF! I don't see a single clear/learning party in here! What do I do?! I'm never going to get to clear this content! The devs need to make it more accessible by moving it from RF/PF to DF, because that makes everything better! That gives us, the new/casual player base control over this content, and takes it away from the raiders!"

Spoiler alert: neither group ever had any "control" over any of the Finders in this game.

Inb4 you say my views don't speak for the majority, I already know that, and I never said that they did.