Put back Extreme trial on raid finder again...please

[DaikiKiyoshi]

Let me ask you this then would you say to put the Arr primals in the rf as well then. I dont think youd advocate for that so why with the same fate coming swiftly to these primals should we keep them in the rf when in two months people could care less. Its not necessary , so we should appease farmers for two more months just to make them happy when they couldnt care less once the expansion hits. That's pretty much what everyone is arguing here a small two month window when it has been a certain way for the rf whole existence but you guys cant handle a mere two months.

Actually yes I would love for ARR Extreme Primals to be added to the Raid Finder as well. I think all Extreme Trials and Savage Raids should be in the RF as they are the most challenging content in the game that, let's face it, the majority of players are not cut out for. If I want to take the time (which I do on occasion) to join learning parties for ex trials and spend 90 minutes wiping to teach newbies how to do a trial or raid I will. But when it comes time for me to have some fun myself and actually clear the thing for my loot I don't want to deal with trolls trying to sneak their way in. The newbies always have the option to learn the content with other newbies like I had to when it first came out. I don't see why they should get special preference now just because the content is dated.

[bswpayton]

Actually yes I would love for ARR Extreme Primals to be added to the Raid Finder as well. I think all Extreme Trials and Savage Raids should be in the RF as they are the most challenging content in the game that,.

Because you guys are talkin like this is a majority of the playerbase and its not , Im sure you can count on your hands how many times a player thats never cleared said content has joined your farm party. I have cleared every hw primal Ive done but zur , and have yet to try nidhogg I wouldnt join a farm party myself simply because I know Im not a robot and I can make mistakes and Id rather not even bother than deal with some perfectionist that thinks everyone is a perfect preforming robot in a video game. So you want them to change a feature for these handful of instances where someone sneaks in the cracks. The feature is still there, its just been removed because its the end of the expansion.

You guys will have things your way when the two storm blood primals come out back to your filtered rf. So again two months is nothing for those whom havent cleared it when you have had six months are more of the rf filter. Im pretty bad at math but I know that six plus months is more than two months of these things still being relevant and being put in the df. I dont hear raiders coming on here saying stop nerfing alex so other people cant clear it, no they dont care because its over and done with.

This does not take away any chance to bird farm at all if anything like I said bird farming will be very easy if youd like to wait for this df thing to pass on and get your bird in two months. People who prefer df have had to wait way longer so I guess this is just a case of too bad just like someone said if a learning party doesnt fill up to bad you waited to late. The game cant please everyone and Id def say the cards have been in the favor of bird farmers long enough its not everyone elses fault that you cant accept a change for two months.

@HyoMinPark
You know that things will go back to normal with the two new primals that we get in sb so why is this bothering you, have those whom like df better not have to wait for this feature to happen. So whats wrong with everyone else who has had things in rf all this time having to wait til they can have things how they want it again?

And as far as the above post Ive taken plenty of advice on the forums some of yours to , Ive made my learning parties Ive cleared stuff etc. I did those Arr primals sync Im just refering to what the norm is as far as what the community decides what will happen and what will not happen. And the fact is the community will not run the content sync as they are now and we both are well aware of that. With my other statement I should of clarified, when I said I woudl bird farm those are only things that I had cleared before sync. The reason I would not do coil before is the opportunity to do it sync isnt there while the chance to do an arr primal sync was there even if it was rare should have clarified Im not hypocrite.

[Vidu]

Because you guys are talkin like this is a majority of the playerbase and its not

If its not a majority of people who'd use the option in the first place, what harm is done?


It may not take away our chance not to have the cleared-option in RF, but its making farming less convenient and more annyoing.
Having the cleared-option in the DF isnt taking away the chance of people who want to learn the fight either - stop making it sound as if there is one newbie and 99 vety queueing and if they're all gone, newbie is all alone and cant learn the fight (unless they go into PF and make a learning party for it)

We are not asking to remove the "I havent cleared it yet"-queue - we're asking for a second queue option, being "I have cleared this". And if people want to spend their freetime in a game farming instead of teaching/helping/carrying new people they should have every damn right and the means to do so!
You really need to stop thinking that newbie-clears and their wish to do this content snyched are more important than "vet"-people who would like their bird now.
I might want to spend those last two months before SB farming for my birds because there is nothing else to do and I would unsub without that. (This doesnt apply to me anymore, because I got my birds now - but I still see enough farm-parties, so telling those people "hey, just wait 2 months and go and help new people now because their kills are really more important" is a horrible attitude)
You keep saying that you want to get those kills the proper way - guess what: I wanted to get my birds the proper way. Which is why I had to farm them now - it might be more difficult to get a syched-learning-party once unsched is an option, but its going to be impossible to farm this content syched once unsyched is an option. So your argument only works when you consider the new person more important than anyone else...

Lets go back to the swimming pool and the two lanes that are for people who want to serious exersice while the rest of the pool is for everyone who wants to just fool around and paddle a bit - those people who want to seriously exersice arent being mean monsters, even if they keep focused on their goal of swimming lanes when the playful people need one more person for water-volleyball and our swimmer chooses to stay focused on their goal and not join them.

That's all fine from your perspective, but it's ignoring why these mechanics exist. Square Enix is trying to keep the game healthy. Having players who flatly refuse to help new players is extremely unhealthy for a game like this. That's why there are so many mechanics designed to incentivize helping players.

Which isn't to say you're necessarily wrong regarding the raid finder. But your attitude is literally useless to Square Enix, and they're not going to cater to it because it doesn't help grow the game at all. If you want to convince them to give you what they want, you need to provide a reason for them to do so. Selfishness is not a good way to convince people to help you.

How is forcing people to help anymore helpful and healthy? How is saying "Hey, you can go and play football, but only if you take your little brother with you" helpful?

Dont get me wrong, I understand and know why those mechanics are in place - but you cant make people help other people. By not giving them a choice its basically telling them "Hey, your intrests are worth less to us than those of the person who just joined the game three weeks ago" - and how is that a good attitude?

And its not even helpful for new people - not every person who'd like to farm has the patience or the skill to teach new people. They'll get upset, toxic, leave immidiatly or after one wipe... giving those people the option to stay out of learning groups is helpful for both sides. Because then only people who are fine with a slower pace will queue up for not-cleared.

[Talraen]

Sounds like a personal problem. Vets aren't here to teach newbies, we are here to have fun just like they are. We have zero obligation to assist anyone yet sometimes we still do out of the kindness of our hearts. They should be grateful for what they get. If you are concerned about people using it to filter newbies out of MSQ content simply don't allow the "No Bonus" option to be selected for things like MSQ dungeons and Roulettes.

That's all fine from your perspective, but it's ignoring why these mechanics exist. Square Enix is trying to keep the game healthy. Having players who flatly refuse to help new players is extremely unhealthy for a game like this. That's why there are so many mechanics designed to incentivize helping players.

Which isn't to say you're necessarily wrong regarding the raid finder. But your attitude is literally useless to Square Enix, and they're not going to cater to it because it doesn't help grow the game at all. If you want to convince them to give you what they want, you need to provide a reason for them to do so. Selfishness is not a good way to convince people to help you.

[HyoMinPark]

Having players who flatly refuse to help new players is extremely unhealthy for a game like this. That's why there are so many mechanics designed to incentivize helping players.

Unfortunately, those kinds of people will never go away, regardless of what is done to the Raid Finder or Ex primals, or what SE does to the game. Can't please everybody. :/

Selfishness is not a good way to convince people to help you.

This comment applies to the people here demanding everyone needs to cater to them because they're new as well. Except now it's them being selfish, and not the vets that just want to farm some days.

It's not selfish of vets to want the option to filter bonuses out of their premades. It's also not selfish that new people ask for veterans with experience to help them, and pass that experience along. What's selfish is when one group (and this goes for BOTH) demands that the other needs to do what the want because they're "more important."

[DaikiKiyoshi]

That's all fine from your perspective, but it's ignoring why these mechanics exist. Square Enix is trying to keep the game healthy. Having players who flatly refuse to help new players is extremely unhealthy for a game like this. That's why there are so many mechanics designed to incentivize helping players.

Which isn't to say you're necessarily wrong regarding the raid finder. But your attitude is literally useless to Square Enix, and they're not going to cater to it because it doesn't help grow the game at all. If you want to convince them to give you what they want, you need to provide a reason for them to do so. Selfishness is not a good way to convince people to help you.

My attitude is that of someone who is annoyed with entitled people who think there is nothing wrong with forcing vets to teach them. I'm way more likely to take time out of my day to help newbies with ex trials if said newbies have not been ruining my own progress by sneaking into my farm parties (which happens way more often then you think). If SE wants veteran players to help newbies the so called incentives they provide us now are not enough. I can't speak for everyone but when I'm trying to farm Soph Ex for weapons, that 50 (or whatever amount) of bonus tomestones (that I don't even get in the end lmao) in no way compensates me for my 90 minutes spent wiping and never clearing the content. SE needs to throw us a bone here, like the ability to filter newbies out of content as they did with RF. It might not make sense to you but if we can get our runs in without newbies ruining it for us we are a lot happier and more likely to help them out after we get our stuff done. It may sound harsh but it's tough love that benefits everyone in the end.

[Dzian]

Square Enix is trying to keep the game healthy. Having players who flatly refuse to help new players is extremely unhealthy for a game like this. That's why there are so many mechanics designed to incentivize helping players.

the problem with those mechanics and incentives is they aren't worth the time investment....
newbie bonus in Sophia ex for example 100 lore I think it is... spend 90 mins wiping only to get timed out with nothing. or soend 15 minutes in a dungeon and be guaranteed 100 lore at the end.....

it might help some what if you got that newbie bonus regardless of outcome.. if you've spent an hour trying to help that newbie only for the group to fall apart you get nothing.. so in the end the incentive just gets lolled at because its worthless...

on a slightly different note though imo what is really unhealthy for the game is the difficulty curve is basically a horizontal line..... players don't get better as they progress through the game. because everything is deliberately easy... and that creats the massive skill gap that exists and that's why people don't want to help newbies... the level of skill you need to unlock zurvan ex for example is a million miles away from the level of skill you need to clear it.. you basically took a stroll along the beach and suddenly been faced with a sheer vertical cliff and the zurvan ex clear is at the top.. that's unhealthy for the game and all it does is frustrate players because either they feel ecluded cos everyone says no bonus. or b players repeatedly get queied with people that have no clue how to play there jobs.....

the game should get harder as you progress. not stay on the same horizontal line.... if it actually got harder as you progressed it'd be like climbing a hill / mountain and not a impossible cliff soo by the time a player cleared zurvan hard. and unlocked zurvan ex he'd already be maybe 3/4 of the way to the summit of actually clearing zurvan extreme. and in this environment you'd probably find players a lot more willing to help newbies. because those newbies are already 3/4 of the way up a hill instead of stood at the bottom of a great big cliff.

but when its a horizontal line. you really cant blame people for not wanting to risk queieng with newbies... would you let a total stranger you passed on the street fix your car just because they want to do it. or would you want some knowledge that they are actually a compentent mechanic before you even consider letting them near it...... if anything is unhealthy for the game its the learning curve

end of rant....

[OMGAFLYINGPENGUIN]

-

To be fair, I don't think the community is not as toxic as you make it out to be, FFxiv probably has one of the best community around, I'm speaking from personal experiences from many games big or small. Yes bonus incentives are nice when you're doing easier content but on savages and Ex trials they are often not worth it, why spend 60mins in a lock out for 100lores when I can just queue ARL for 150 in 30mins.

I've cleared everything most of my content in RF, I never had a static and despite my real life commitments I still invested time to study fights and make the effort to practice, google for japanese strats watch videos and understand them. I never had the luxury to run with the player compositions, strategy or the quality of players I want, I play in a JP server and have poor command of the japanese language but I still make an effort to improve my japanese and converse with them.

I think it all comes down to the mind set of the players, you can brood all day, blaming the system, the community and possibly the difficulty of the game by at the end of the day it all comes down to how much effort you're willing to put into something. That is the effort I put in hoping I don't pull 7 other people down with me, to me if you don't put in effort in the things that you want, obviously you don't want it enough.

That being said I enjoy helping people, I'd love for the playerbase to improve but I do not want to be put in a situation where I am forced to help when I really just want to get things done and every fight I queue for starts at ground zero ( at least for trials and savages). My advice is that you should try queueing for HW trials (not bismack and ravana) and Alexander savages and you'll see where I am going, quite often you'll meet people put in little to no effort to read up, go in blindly and expect a clear.

I don't want to sound like a broken record but.. I will say this again, no one complained about RF when it was placed be it casual or by "elite" players, meaning difficult contents is where it should be and RF was a good filter in a sense, people are complaining now because DF is a nightmare with those content. My words have some weight in them because I am an extremely helpful person in a way I try to give back to the community, I do things for free, carry people on a double seater mount to unlock aether currents, I can go on about this but that is beside the point. I have been queuing DF and it has been burning me out mentally because I am thrown in a situation where I am forced to help the majority of the time. My advice to you is, go and queue alex savage, thordan, sep and nidhog then maybe your opinion might change.

Lastly I don't want to be burnt out like what has happened to most veterans in this game, it becomes counter productive when you burn your veterans till the point where they don't want to ever step in.

[HyoMinPark]

With people asking for the complete removal of Raid Finder in general, and saying that all content should be accessible in Duty Finder, the problem will not go away come Stormblood. Because those of us who want to farm will no longer have the option to do so without bonuses because DF does not offer such options, nor does the game tell you until after you enter the instance if a player doesn't have a clear. That is the main concern of us posting here.

I used RF to PUG Sophia a lot (and on days when I was feeling generous, I would even PUG under Duty Incomplete and help those that were new for as long as the party stayed together). But I usually used it for queuing into farm parties, and I liked that it had the option to prevent queuing if a player had not cleared the content. Because for one, it's disrespectful to join a farm party, tell no one that you don't have a clear, and just expect us to "deal with it" and teach you anyways. I don't care where the Ex primals or Savage raids are located. Just allow me to keep the Duty Complete/Incomplete option.

It "bothers" me so much that people are trying to say that they should get special treatment because they're new. We were all new once. It's not like it's something special or unheard of. I was new to all ARR content when I started. You as well. But I didn't ask nor expect veteran players to hold my hand and cater to what I wanted. I would ask for mechanic explanations. Whether they provided them or not, I would still just run the content instead of demanding they bend to my will.

I would need several pairs of hands to count the amount of people with no clears that snuck into my farm parties. I would need even more to count all the wipes they caused.

[Vaer]

Don't really care if it ends up in DF or RF.

However, if someone is making a PF that is a farm party that says no bonus, there should be a way to tell who snuck in with bonus if it happens instead of trying to guess who has the bonus. Same thing should happen if someone joins and doesn't meet other entry requirements (such as it not being unlocked). If people keep saying just use PF, PF should provide the tools required to enforce whatever restrictions the party leader wants.