As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

[Feyona]

I practically farm almost every day and the people that farm them are far from optimal. There may be an idea of what a farm is but that idea is not being manifested in almost all the farm parties Im in. Im not sure if what you state in that case excludes most of the player base. Because if everyone is expected to be optimal in them, farms would be very rare indeed. As for this issue of is my job to dps I find its being forced thats why every time healers post on here to the contrary its often put down. Even if some dont see it. As for my comments coming across as toxic, its just the truth as I see it. And I really dont like healer dps being forced or expected the word ' you' is a generalization not to be taken personally. But Ive seen alot more toxicity from others too on the subject

[Bourne_Endeavor]

snip

You are conflating two different expectations. No one should go into any pug group expecting optimal DPS. If it happens, count yourself lucky. There is, however, a difference between consistency and sloppiness. If you're struggling to clear the fight, had to explain mechanics repeated or certain just keep on dying, then you're not farming. Some groups will push through anyway, others will not. It's you who has to expect that because the community will not change.

[Taika]

People who never played as a Healer, or think healer should "make up" for the incompetence of dps, have no Right to say What healers should ir shouldn't do.

No one here is arguing that healer's job is to make up for the incompetence of DPS, that it's their responsibility, no one.

So basically, healers should play 110% their potential always to speed the fight , anything less is unaceptable, while dps are expected to play 70-80% and thats okay, anything more its "player skill", interesting.

Also, no one is arguing that healers should be expected to contribute more efficiently than DPS.

Then it kind of proves whst Im trying to say as both healers dps full on at first . What was lacking was the dps's dps but healers sort of get the blame as pressured to dps and failng healing as a result.

No it doesn't. You're misunderstanding the situation (possibly on purpose). You can't argue that the DPS there is only the DDs responsibility: it's the responsibility of each party member, including the healers (and no, healers aren't more responsible for it, they're simply as responsible as everyone else).

The case discussed was Zurvan's first phase during which healers either contribute to DPS or do nothing (useful) at all, since it's not required to cast a single heal in this timed phase. If the group's goal is to skip Soar, it means they'll have to take Zurvan below 75% HP during the first phase (or something like this, it's been a while since I did this). Now if your group has 2 tanks, 2 healers and 4 DDs, you can't say this is only the responsibility of the last 4, since that would be impossible. Again, if you're saying it's the responsibility of DDs and tanks, you would be placing unrealistic expectations to your other party members while expecting absolutely nothing at all from your two healers (since 0 healing is required in this phase, and you aren't expecting them to contribute to DPS either), and how could you justify that?

Instead, it's the responsibility of each party member to pull their weight. Instead of asking DDs (and tanks) to contribute 100% optimally and healers 0%, why not ask everyone to aim for 70% optimal play (using these numbers for argument's sake, have not checked Zurvan logs or DPS requirements), isn't that more fair? Asking healers to contribute to DPS does not mean others will get a free ride, since DDs are still expected to contribute - and with the same efficiency than the healers, so the expectations are actually placed at same level for everyone.

[Sebazy]

Just to expand on what Taika is saying here.

Two regens and a fairy is all it takes to heal the entire first phase, also note that one of those is just before the pull and this is with a tank in DPS stance as well.

If you aren't doing some DPS here, you are literally dead weight and a detriment to your team at this point.

You wont see my logs cos they arnt posted in my static. Thank goodness cos Im kind of sick of logs being used to pull people to bits.

God forbid people demonstrate that they have the slightest idea what they are going on about eh? This thread would be a lot more useful (and like a fraction of the length) if you'd grow a backbone at some point. =(

[Feyona]

No one here is arguing that healer's job is to make up for the incompetence of DPS, that it's their responsibility, no one.



No it doesn't. You're misunderstanding the situation (possibly on purpose). You can't argue that the DPS there is only the DDs responsibility: it's the responsibility of each party member, including the healers (and no, healers aren't more responsible for it, they're simply as responsible as everyone else).

I read all of your post and do not understand if your proposing that I disagree with you. There are normally 2 heals and one tank, in zurvan farms the healers dps full on at the start and if we dont skip soar then it is the dps's dps that is lacking. I will add here that your possibly wrong though because my static has two tanks and 2 healer and the dps is not super high and we skipped soar regularly. So that proves that my statement is even more accurate than some of yours. What Im actually saying is the opposite as its the dps putting pressure on healers and blaming them if they fail to pull off enough dps as well as heal. In which case they are not fulfilling their responsibility for the team, If they arnt dpsing enough in the first place

[Feyona]

Just to expand on what Taika is saying here.

Two regens and a fairy is all it takes to heal the entire first phase, also note that one of those is just before the pull and this is with a tank in DPS stance as well.

If you aren't doing some DPS here, you are literally dead weight and a detriment to your team at this point.



God forbid people demonstrate that they have the slightest idea what they are going on about eh? This thread would be a lot more useful (and like a fraction of the length) if you'd grow a backbone at some point. =(

I will take ithis post as an assumption that I dont know what Im talking about? So in that case what content or aspects of the game dont I know anything about? As Ive been subscribed for two years and been in every content of the game. What is this exclusive knowledge that only you know anything about? Also what do you mean I need a backbone? Ive already stated the difference between constructive citicism and the willful destruction of a person's confidence. Yes we all need to improve ourselves that is the main aim of the game. Some dont really want to be put under extreme pressure and avoid hard core values like that as they really just want to enjoy the game. Most people I feel will improve by themselves without needing to be bullied with parsers. Im fighting my corner , it seems just to be allowed that right. If I use a metaphor its like being set on by a pack of wolves in here but I think in some respects wolves are better cos they accept other people just how they are. With less judgement

[Zojha]

It seems this thread just went exponential entropy... again.

[Feyona]

You are conflating two different expectations. No one should go into any pug group expecting optimal DPS. If it happens, count yourself lucky. There is, however, a difference between consistency and sloppiness.

Maybe your right but its really not black and white like that. In the farms I go in Everyone knows the tacts and we ask for no bonus, its usually the mechanics people mess up on which is something that can happen at any time, As well as the healer being blamed for not dpsing enough. but I wasn't refering to this in my original statement I was refering to the fact that sub par dps are expecting healers to carry them sufficiently to skip soar which dps should be able to acheive by themselves even with 70% of their potential. I hope that I get that point across sufficiently without having to explain it again.

[Lambdafish]

I was refering to the fact that sub par dps are expecting healers to carry them sufficiently to skip soar which dps should be able to acheive by themselves even with 70% of their potential. I hope that I get that point across sufficiently without having to explain it again.

I think the only person who has said that is you actually. The situation isn't you aiding sub-par DPS, the situation is that everyone should be DPS to their fullest in that first phase because it is a massive DPS gap (remember those? we talked about them, and you said that you struggled to identify them). There is no outgoing damage unless someone messes up, and DPSing hard enough nets you a phase skip. EVERYONE should have DPS on full.

Even if it were the case that DPS was lacking and the party couldn't skip soar, the sheer refusal to DPS as a healer, given the above statement is not valid in the slightest.

[Taika]

I will add here that your possibly wrong though because my static has two tanks and 2 healer and the dps is not super high and we skipped soar regularly. So that proves that my statement is even more accurate than some of yours.

What statement of yours does this make accurate? Or what statement of mine does it make somehow inaccurate? If you actually read my post I was in fact discussing an example group with 2 tanks and 2 healers. Please try to explain what you mean more precisely, because your posts are not making much sense as they are now.

Edit: I didn't manage to find the group DPS requirement number for skipping Soar by fast googling, but on a YouTube video where the group barely managed to skip it, getting the boss to 80% in 1st phase, their group DPS was a bit over 17500 in first phase.

If you assume two 0 DPS healers and make that the responsibility of DDs and tanks alone, and assume each tank would do 75% of the DPS of a DD, you would be asking for all of your four DDs to do at least 3182 DPS each, and both your tanks to do at least 2386 DPS each. All I can say is, good luck with justifying that while saying it's completely alright for the two healers in the same group to do absolutely nothing at all.

sub par dps are expecting healers to carry them sufficiently to skip soar which dps should be able to acheive by themselves even with 70% of their potential

Based on these numbers, are you really calling a 3k DPS DD "sup-bar" while at the same time saying it's not ok to ask for healers to contribute in DPS at all? Are you really that blind to your own double standards?