As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

[Feyona]

What statement of yours does this make accurate? Or what statement of mine does it make somehow inaccurate? If you actually read my post I was in fact discussing an example group with 2 tanks and 2 healers.

why do you keep assuming that im saying healers shouldnt dps in there when Im actually not. Im reffering to dps that blame healers for not dpsing enough when its actually the dps not dpsing enough. The innaccuracy is in implying that its too much for a group of 4 dps to acheive or too much to expect of them. Whereas what im actually saying is that sub par dps should not be expecting healers to do 100% when they are doing 80% I will admit if someone dies in the first phase .... Yes it actually happened in a farm group. Healers have to then stop dps.

[Taika]

why do you keep assuming that im saying healers shouldnt dps in there when Im actually not.

Throughout this thread your whole main argument has been that healers should not be expected or told to DPS. Have you now changed your mind and agree that healers in fact should DPS in (the first phase of) Zurvan extreme?

The innaccuracy is in implying that its too much for a group of 4 dps to acheive or too much to expect of them.

So, going back to the numbers on the previous page, you truly think that it would be alright to expect 3182 DPS from each DD, and at least 2386 DPS from each tank, while expecting nothing at all from the healers?

Whereas what im actually saying is that sub par dps should not be expecting healers to do 100% when they are doing 80%

No one here has said it's ok for DDs to expect more contribution from their healers than they're giving themselves, so I don't see how that point is relevant to the discussion, as we can all agree on that for sure. What we disagree on, is that you seem to be arguing it's ok for healers to expect more contribution from DDs than what they're willing to give...

[Feyona]

I think the only person

Even if it were the case that DPS was lacking and the party couldn't skip soar, the sheer refusal to DPS as a healer, given the above statement is not valid in the slightest.

yes I said it and others have said it to me who have been booted or moaned at for not dpsing enough as a healer and you simply cant dismiss the facts because you may not like what Im saying by implying its only me that says it happens on here. I have never said it any of my 500 or so posts that Ive refused to dps only once when I said that id refuse if I needed to heal.

[Feyona]

No one here has said it's ok for DDs to expect more contribution from their healers than they're giving themselves, so I don't see how that point is relevant to the discussion, as we can all agree on that for sure. What we disagree on, is that you seem to be arguing it's ok for healers to expect more contribution from DDs than what they're willing to give...

No what I actually object to is dps expecting more from healers than what they give themselves and I have never said once in these points that healers or me dont dps its the fact they expect more than is possible for a healer to do at times, and putting the pressure on isnt acceptable when your not doing your own job right. By now Ive seen so many groups fail due to such pressure when healers are actually afraid to not be seen dpsing their asses off for fear of being booted then its going too far. Plus where have I ever stated that I am expecting more from the dps? Ive actually said ,if you read my posts, that I dont mind it being slower or if we skip soar, I know how to do that phase. I actually believe it you that makes assumptions of what Im saying to support your own biased opinion rather than the other way round. By default you cannot expect a healer to dps if they need to heal so I dont think that point is irrelevant anyway

[Taika]

No what I actually object to is dps expecting more from healers than what they give themselves

Well, since no one here has said it's ok to expect more from healers than from DDs, I guess you can happily stop participating in your lengthy arguments with thin air then.

[Judge_Xero]

There isn't really much to discuss about the opening in a Zurvan EX Soar Skip Farm.

If as healers you are pushing 1500+ DPS each @ i270 and still unable to skip Soar then the tanks and dps need to get good. If you get kicked from a group like that consider it a gift.

If each of the healers aren't pushing 1500+ DPS @ i270 then they should get good, or not join a Soar Skip and/or Farm party. (Regardless of whether it would cause a Soar Skip or not, having 50 seconds of healer DPS window should be used as such)

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More of a break down of Zurvan Soar Skip -

Including the drop (~10 seconds where you can't DPS) you have ~75seconds to push Soar @ 75% which requires 14,700 DPS

Most average DPS will push out 2500 DPS including the drop and then the wind up after the drop (15 seconds for putting debuffs, dots etc before Soar)

So that leaves 4,700 DPS for the tanks and healers to take up. Tanks can typically be 1400 - 1800 depending on party comp, so we'll say 1400 for MT and 1800 for OT -> 3200 which leaves 1500 dps for the healers.

From what I've seen each healer can easily push out 1500 DPS because the tank is taking half of the damage the Fairy Pet can heal on it's own (~450 DTPS and the Fairy can heal 900/s not including Rouse)

So say both Healers know how to put their dots on and spam Malefic II/Broil this reduces the DPS requirement to 11,700. (14,700 - 3000 = 11,700)

DPS 2200 X 4 = 8800 DPS
Tanks 1500 DPS = 3000 DPS
Total = 11,800 DPS

Required Healer DPS = 2900 Combined

Which is so incredibly low that to not skip Soar either the DPS and Tanks don't have a pulse or the healers aren't contributing as much as they think.

Also don't take those Healer DPS numbers as gospel. I was doing 1700 DPS as SCH with the Sophia weapon @ like i260 so healers can probably contribute significantly more @ i270 with i270+ weapons etc.

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Single Tank Strat - Average to Skilled Players

DPS 2200 X 5 = 11,000
Tank = 1500
Total 12,500

Required Healer DPS = 2200

------------------------------

Single Tank Strat with Decent Players @ i270 90%+
DPS = 2650 X 5 = 13,250
Tank = 1800
Total 15,050

Required Healer DPS = 0

Well, since no one here has said it's ok to expect more from healers than from DDs, I guess you can happily stop participating in your lengthy arguments with thin air then.

I think it stems from this "idea" that asking healers to DPS when there's nothing else to do somehow means they're going from 30% to 110% operating capacity.

I have this scenario in my head with all this chit chat about Zurvan

AST casts Combust II and Combust at the start of the fight then nothing else. Party doesn't skip Soar.
AST: "Can't even skip Soar with Healer DPS. Get on my level" /disband

[Feyona]

Well, since no one here has said it's ok to expect more from healers than from DDs, I guess you can happily stop participating in your lengthy arguments with thin air then.

Oh yes you may not want too see it but others may want to see others points of view. Another default coming up- here is feedback if you dont like seeing opinions why come here? Takes at least 2 people to argue btw and its me thats not good with numbers.

[Sebazy]

So in that case what content or aspects of the game dont I know anything about?

Pretty much any of the truly challenging content pre nerf I suspect, when was your first Thordan kill? A3S? A4S? A8S? Ever tasted synced SCOB savage? The fact that you desperately cling to your idea that it doesn't matter how fast you kill an encounter smacks of someone with very limited endgame experience or ability. A12S very clearly demonstrates otherwise, much more so than Zurvan, if you've spent a reasonable amount of time progressing in A12S (without buying a carry) and you still don't see the importance of raid wide DPS then you really do need to consider a trip to spec savers

Don't get me wrong, I suspect I dislike having to DPS in raid content far more than you do, but progressing A4S (and I was pretty late to this one) very clearly demonstrated to me that when the time comes, I have to suck it up and deal with it. Logs never got me bullied once, rather they were a tool for me to go to far more skilled players (or their logs ofc!) than myself and simply ask 'how can I improve?'. I never got berated once.

What is this exclusive knowledge that only you know anything about? Also what do you mean I need a backbone?

I'm far from the only person who 'gets it', this thread has demonstrated that time and time again. Rather you completely ignore valid points to tunnel vision in on any detail that might be construed as damaging to the delicate little bubble you live in. As I've said, hyper defensive.

And yes indeed, it is just like being set upon by a pack of wolves. Lesson learnt, don't set yourself up preaching on such a high and mighty plinth without some mighty solid foundations underneath you to keep it all steady.

[Feyona]

[QUOTE=Sebazy;4110142)





On the contrary its not me that professes to know everything. its you thinking that you know everything and even what others know or dont know apparently. I dont actually give a shit about hard core facts and figures. I just want to enjoy the game and keep reminding you that it is a game not some serious kind of dedicated compulsion to playing it one way like a sort of scientific experiment where everyone has to follow precise formulas. Im enjoying my game with others and thats what I play it for. So while you insist on educating some that want to listen or not. please allow me to have a preference in how I play and stop driving people off the game with your boring facts. Its actually not me thats preaching to others its YOU. And just for the record my first thordan kill was quite a long time ago and i didnt need a parser to 'improve' myself to do it and niether did I need your personal opinion. Plus I wonder how you would fare on here if it wasnt you just following popular opinion like a sheep. I actually dont play the game to be a super hero I just want to enjoy it I dont care if Im top of my game or if ny skill is limited It seems to only be you that is concerned about everyone playing how you think they should, and wether they are top skill or not. Perhaps you think because you know everything that gives you the right to judge other's worth on the game. I m not in a big rush to be the best player on the server , or clear content before anyone else does to brag about it. I enjoy the game meeting each challenge as it comes and I think its fair to allow people to do this. As it may not be your way but its the way others would like to be .

[Sebazy]

I'm not even going to entertain that incoherent mess. There's another 100 page thread of material to pick apart right there but meh.