Please remove the weekly lock out of stuff

[Lyraele]

It would really be nice if they have to have a limit, that the limit somehow allow you to gear multiple roles at least, if not multiple jobs. It would be nice to be able to work up a tank/healer/DPS at same time without resorting to alts.

[mosaicex]

Cap will stay as long as people treating it like the only way they can gear up, simple as that.

Savage raids, EX Primals, what are those? Something that's not relevance to the means of gearing up, I guess.

Crafted equipments? But I don't wanna pay for those!

Diadem gears? But I don't wanna deal with RNG!?

etc.

Yes, SE have to keep casual players who are only interested in seeing their ilvl number going up but no interest in doing any other kind of (non-capped) contents subbed somehow.
Ironic that cap exists in the first place because of the people who wanted it gone.

[Felis]

It's always amazed me how people complained so much about the fatigue system but have no problem with the weekly lockouts, when this system is not only similar, but arguably worse.

exp =/= gear
There are also many ways to get gears. If you don't raid you can ignore the weekly lockout and farm PoTD or Diadem for weapons and buy gears from the MB.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

If the only reason you play is for gear, you'd probably be better off just not playing. Like what value is there in gear, which is just to clear content, if it's not even the content itself that appeals to you? That's just blindly running on the loot treadmill for the sake of running on the loot treadmill.

When did I insinuate gear is my only motivation? I enjoy the content. That being said, I like a challenge, and won't run the same handful of faceroll dungeons I barely even need to turn off cleric stance for. No matter how well designed they may or may be, that inevitably gets boring. Once I have what I want from them, I'll likely have ran both 10-20 times and that's more than enough. At least for a while. I'll go back at some point, maybe. On the other hand, I love running Savage multiple times because it simply demands more. No matter what ilvl I am, I need to know my job and how to perform it well.

If content is no longer relevant 4 months after it's released, then your point that you can gear up all those jobs after 4 months is irrelevant. We should be able to gear up multiple jobs while content is relevant.

I don't expect them to remove lockouts, but they are way too strict. If people were allowed to pick up a Maiming gear and also a Scouting gear, they wouldn't be any more progressed than if they were only allowed to pick up one. Someone who only plays one job and gears it up would still be able to stay caught up with them by only getting one piece of gear. Combine this with individual loot and we'd have a far more flexible system than our current one, while still limiting the pace of progression.

At the very least, it could be limited by role and encourage more people to play tanks and healers, or dps for those who tank and heal.

Not at all. I run on alt jobs for fun. By that point, I'll have cleared multiple times and simply feel like playing something else. The first several months is when I don't know the fight and have to manage with sub-optimal gear while competing with other players if I so choose. You can't replicate that experience when the odd numbered patch comes along and everyone picks up 270 gear. My first clear this tier was after 50+ hours of progression with a trash 255 weapon and only some 270 gear. The parse was ugly, we were all tired and frustrated but the nerd scream after made it all worthwhile. I wouldn't have that four months later when I can run Dun Scaith and Zurvan and be nearly full 270 before even reaching A12S. Afterwards, it's all about fun or maximizing my numbers.

Could they loosen the restrictions? Maybe. But the faster we optimize, the less likely people stay. Plenty of raiders unsub not long after the odd number patch drops because they've managed to gear up the jobs they care about. If they could do it week one, well, they'd unsub that much faster.

It's always amazed me how people complained so much about the fatigue system but have no problem with the weekly lockouts, when this system is not only similar, but arguably worse.

The fatigue system actively prevents me from playing. I literally cannot progress further no matter what I do whereas I can go into A12S with ilvl 250 crafted gear and still attempt it. I'll likely wipe multiple times, but at least I can to try. You're acting as though jobs are wholly unplayable if you aren't bis. Like I just said above, I cleared Savage with Sophia's weapon. You don't need the best gear just to clear content. If you want to rotate jobs, find a static whose members feel the same.

It isn't to say I like the weekly limitations. I just am not bothered by them one way or another, and can appreciate why they're in place.

[Synrin]

Honestly, removing the weekly lockout seems like something that would open a huge rift in between players and all sorts of ways to toxic behaviour. So I would say please keep it.

[Nixxe]

When did I insinuate gear is my only motivation?

I don't care what your motivation is, but the moment you insinuated that people would quit without additional gear to pursue, you insinuated that there were a significant number of players who play only for gear.

[MomomiMomi]

Not at all. I run on alt jobs for fun. By that point, I'll have cleared multiple times and simply feel like playing something else. The first several months is when I don't know the fight and have to manage with sub-optimal gear while competing with other players if I so choose. You can't replicate that experience when the odd numbered patch comes along and everyone picks up 270 gear. My first clear this tier was after 50+ hours of progression with a trash 255 weapon and only some 270 gear. The parse was ugly, we were all tired and frustrated but the nerd scream after made it all worthwhile. I wouldn't have that four months later when I can run Dun Scaith and Zurvan and be nearly full 270 before even reaching A12S. Afterwards, it's all about fun or maximizing my numbers.

Could they loosen the restrictions? Maybe. But the faster we optimize, the less likely people stay. Plenty of raiders unsub not long after the odd number patch drops because they've managed to gear up the jobs they care about. If they could do it week one, well, they'd unsub that much faster.

The fatigue system actively prevents me from playing. I literally cannot progress further no matter what I do whereas I can go into A12S with ilvl 250 crafted gear and still attempt it. I'll likely wipe multiple times, but at least I can to try. You're acting as though jobs are wholly unplayable if you aren't bis. Like I just said above, I cleared Savage with Sophia's weapon. You don't need the best gear just to clear content. If you want to rotate jobs, find a static whose members feel the same.

It isn't to say I like the weekly limitations. I just am not bothered by them one way or another, and can appreciate why they're in place.

This is all talking about yourself. Not everyone is at the same skill level. Some people need a leg up to clear content. This means that for some people, they aren't going to clear until they've finally geared up a job, possibly for weeks or months.

If they were to change job, they'd have to go back in ilvl and be far worse off for it. So it's simply not an option.

[Arkune]

SE can Keep their Lockouts and 450 Cap, no Problem at all but they can atleast lift the Lockouts per Job instead of Character.

For the Tome part:
11 Weeks, excluding a Weapon and a second Ring, so if we include the Weapon we have more like 14 Weeks. So whats wrong with having the locks per Job instead of the Character?

If we take that Szenario into the release of SB, 14 Weeks tomes Farming + average 1-2 Weeks capping a single Class to Level 70, which will be 4 Months of Content, and if u have the time you can simple Gearing your other Classes in the same pace. And 4 Months and then you have 2 Months to enjoy your Ilevel before the next Tomes gets into the Game.

For me, it doesnt matter how often a Day/Week i need to run a Dungeon, aslong i see light at the end of the tunnel.

Example: DRK + PLD + RDM + MNK (my mains, including SB)
Lets say i am Level 70 within the First Week with all those Jobs i mentioned above. I can run Dungeons with all of them, but just get the 450 Tome max and as usually, at the beginning we will have the Artefact Armor. So it will take 16 Months to Gear all my Jobs with the Artefact Gear (in total), thats ridiculous and a bad design, especially that this game shouldnt be a a toon heaven like WoW (1 char all Jobs u know?!)

If the allow me to Farm the 450 tomes / week / Job, i would be perfectly fine, i am done with all 4 Jobs withing 4 Months, can enjoy my classes for 2 Months before the next Tome Tier getting released.

And i am not a fan about the min/max BiS shit, i am not a big Glamour fan, but i want to wear the gear which is matching. So if i wear 260 Tome Gear, i want to wear the full set and not mixed up with Dun Scaith.

Also another Part (OT), they should get rid of the mixed up Sets and should fill in Set effects, which offering a higher Bonus then using 3 different Gear pieces out of 3 different ressources. Or atleast the Gear has the same main/secondarys (just lower depending on difficulty of the raid)

Example:
Body Piece Savage Raid Ilevel 100
100 Vit, 100 Str, 50 Crit, 50 Parry

Body Piece Tomes - Ilevel 95
95 Vit, 95 Str, 47 Crit, 47 Parry

Body Piece 24 Raid Ilevel 90
90 Vit, 90 Str, 45 Crit, 45 Parry

This are just random Numbers, just to Show what i mean.

[Synrin]

SE can Keep their Lockouts and 450 Cap, no Problem at all but they can atleast lift the Lockouts per Job instead of Character.

Finally an actual good suggestion in this thread that isn't black or white. Good idea all in all!

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I don't care what your motivation is, but the moment you insinuated that people would quit without additional gear to pursue, you insinuated that there were a significant number of players who play only for gear.

A lot do. Or rather they care about the proverbial carrot. Take away mounts from the extreme primals and I guarantee each and every single one will be dead content within a month; two tops. How many people complain about running the same two dungeons? If they could hit 2000 Scripture in a week and gear up their main job. How often do you think they'll keep running those same dungeons? I barely run them even with the tomestone restrictions. It's simple human nature. Most people won't do something unless they are in some way benefited. At least not consistently. No matter how nice and helpful someone may be, eventually they'll get tired. And this doesn't even take into consideration crafted gear becomes completely worthless. Who's going to buy gear of the market board for thousands when they can spam Gubal Hard ten times? What about Alex Normal. Clear it once and just spam dungeons for Scriptures. Even if you bump everything up to 260, people will then farm whatever happens to be fastest.

None of this insinuates players only play for gear. It merely posits most won't run content 20-30-50 times for no reason other than "the dungeon looks pretty."

A perfect example are the 24 man raids. Crystal Tower was dead content until the Anima forced us all back into it. How many people would run Void Ark/Weeping/Dun Scaith if they could get everything they wanted in a couple weeks-- less if they're willing to farm?

This is all talking about yourself. Not everyone is at the same skill level. Some people need a leg up to clear content. This means that for some people, they aren't going to clear until they've finally geared up a job, possibly for weeks or months.

If they were to change job, they'd have to go back in ilvl and be far worse off for it. So it's simply not an option.

Very few people abruptly change jobs during progression, especially as statics often try to build around what you're previously selected. How often does say, a Dragoon decide, "I want to go Bard" three weeks into Savage? A good number of statics would flatout kick you if you insist because they'll now have three ranged and you already agreed to play a melee. Even were that scenario to occur, it's not like you cannot obtain enough gear to make it work. A9/A10 were easily pug-able this tier. If you wanted to swap jobs, get some accessories and maybe something on your left side. If that still isn't enough, sorry but... plan ahead next time. You don't go into Savage level content thinking "I'll play and gear whatever. Everyone'll be okay with that!"

What you're asking is to design a system around people being indecisive. You have four weeks before you can even buy something with pages; six if it's anything except accessories. If you can't commit to one job by that point, it isn't the game's fault. Regardless, this still brings us back to if you can farm everything from the onset, you take away any incentive to keep playing later on. And as I already mentioned above, unlocking tomestones destroys most alternative gearing methods.

I don't like this idea that everyone should be limited because a few can't contain themselves. Also, we have a ceiling, it's not like older MMORPGs where the gap gets so big that you can't ever catch up. So a hardcore gets all the gear they want in one week while normal players takes one month or two... what's the harm? Everyone is still equal in the end.

Maybe caps serve their purpose when a new raid tier is released, but the next patch shouldn't be so rigid, just let people gear up and use their gear. Remember how much people would talk that it took more time to get your Relic than actually using it? I feel the same about a lot of weekly capped stuff.

Let's break it down.

3.4 released

ilvl 250 Proto-Alexandrian
ilvl 250 Crafted
ilvl 255 Sophic weapons
ilvl 260 Shire
ilvl 270 Alexandrian
ilvl 270 Augmented Shire

3.5 released

ilvl 260 Diabolic
ilvl 265 Zurvanite weapons
Shillings were added to upgrade Shire weekly
ilvl 270 Proto-Ultima accessories

From this list, we can immediately cross out all 250 gear and the 260 Diabolic. It's rendered instantly obsolete since why farm inferior gear with RNG when you can just spam faceroll dungeons? If the loot restrictions on Alex normal are also removed, well, you don't need Sophic weapons. People have no reason to run A9-11N more than once save occasional fun since you get nothing out of it; run A12N seven times per job and that's irrelevant next. By the time 3.5 drops, people literally only need to run Dun Scaith to upgrade their Shire. And if it lacks restrictions too, they can spam it. Even if you aren't hardcore, it doesn't take long nor do you need get everything. What about Solm Al and Baelsar's Wall? Four months later, even snail pace players will likely have farmed all they want scripture wise. Now you have two dungeons that will only be popular for a week or two as there's no reason to run them.

Basically, it invalidates a large amount of content. These restrictions are meant to keep people subbed. Some, like Momo will wait out the restrictions and return when they can gear however they please. Most won't. They'll play whenever the new patch launches and whether it takes two weeks or two month, be set gear wise and have no incentive to run any content. Raiders will be bis within the first month and likely unsub by 3.5 once they've exhausted speed killing and casual players will struggle dealing with slow queues in content no longer needed. I didn't even mention dungeon and diadem gear. It's pretty much DOA. Unfortunately, there has to be some form of limitation on progression in a sub based game. If not tomestones then RNG or some other potentially annoying restriction. Being able to get everything you want quickly removes player incentive to continuously play. Some games limit progression with week restrictions while others gate through immensely long grinds (Black Desert and Blade & Soul). They all serve the same purpose; keeping the majority of players subbed. I won't say FFXIV can't improve. It's certainly far from perfect, but there will always been a limit.