Please remove the weekly lock out of stuff

[Bourne_Endeavor]

If the only reason you play is for gear, you'd probably be better off just not playing. Like what value is there in gear, which is just to clear content, if it's not even the content itself that appeals to you? That's just blindly running on the loot treadmill for the sake of running on the loot treadmill.

When did I insinuate gear is my only motivation? I enjoy the content. That being said, I like a challenge, and won't run the same handful of faceroll dungeons I barely even need to turn off cleric stance for. No matter how well designed they may or may be, that inevitably gets boring. Once I have what I want from them, I'll likely have ran both 10-20 times and that's more than enough. At least for a while. I'll go back at some point, maybe. On the other hand, I love running Savage multiple times because it simply demands more. No matter what ilvl I am, I need to know my job and how to perform it well.

If content is no longer relevant 4 months after it's released, then your point that you can gear up all those jobs after 4 months is irrelevant. We should be able to gear up multiple jobs while content is relevant.

I don't expect them to remove lockouts, but they are way too strict. If people were allowed to pick up a Maiming gear and also a Scouting gear, they wouldn't be any more progressed than if they were only allowed to pick up one. Someone who only plays one job and gears it up would still be able to stay caught up with them by only getting one piece of gear. Combine this with individual loot and we'd have a far more flexible system than our current one, while still limiting the pace of progression.

At the very least, it could be limited by role and encourage more people to play tanks and healers, or dps for those who tank and heal.

Not at all. I run on alt jobs for fun. By that point, I'll have cleared multiple times and simply feel like playing something else. The first several months is when I don't know the fight and have to manage with sub-optimal gear while competing with other players if I so choose. You can't replicate that experience when the odd numbered patch comes along and everyone picks up 270 gear. My first clear this tier was after 50+ hours of progression with a trash 255 weapon and only some 270 gear. The parse was ugly, we were all tired and frustrated but the nerd scream after made it all worthwhile. I wouldn't have that four months later when I can run Dun Scaith and Zurvan and be nearly full 270 before even reaching A12S. Afterwards, it's all about fun or maximizing my numbers.

Could they loosen the restrictions? Maybe. But the faster we optimize, the less likely people stay. Plenty of raiders unsub not long after the odd number patch drops because they've managed to gear up the jobs they care about. If they could do it week one, well, they'd unsub that much faster.

It's always amazed me how people complained so much about the fatigue system but have no problem with the weekly lockouts, when this system is not only similar, but arguably worse.

The fatigue system actively prevents me from playing. I literally cannot progress further no matter what I do whereas I can go into A12S with ilvl 250 crafted gear and still attempt it. I'll likely wipe multiple times, but at least I can to try. You're acting as though jobs are wholly unplayable if you aren't bis. Like I just said above, I cleared Savage with Sophia's weapon. You don't need the best gear just to clear content. If you want to rotate jobs, find a static whose members feel the same.

It isn't to say I like the weekly limitations. I just am not bothered by them one way or another, and can appreciate why they're in place.

[Nixxe]

When did I insinuate gear is my only motivation?

I don't care what your motivation is, but the moment you insinuated that people would quit without additional gear to pursue, you insinuated that there were a significant number of players who play only for gear.

[MomomiMomi]

Not at all. I run on alt jobs for fun. By that point, I'll have cleared multiple times and simply feel like playing something else. The first several months is when I don't know the fight and have to manage with sub-optimal gear while competing with other players if I so choose. You can't replicate that experience when the odd numbered patch comes along and everyone picks up 270 gear. My first clear this tier was after 50+ hours of progression with a trash 255 weapon and only some 270 gear. The parse was ugly, we were all tired and frustrated but the nerd scream after made it all worthwhile. I wouldn't have that four months later when I can run Dun Scaith and Zurvan and be nearly full 270 before even reaching A12S. Afterwards, it's all about fun or maximizing my numbers.

Could they loosen the restrictions? Maybe. But the faster we optimize, the less likely people stay. Plenty of raiders unsub not long after the odd number patch drops because they've managed to gear up the jobs they care about. If they could do it week one, well, they'd unsub that much faster.

The fatigue system actively prevents me from playing. I literally cannot progress further no matter what I do whereas I can go into A12S with ilvl 250 crafted gear and still attempt it. I'll likely wipe multiple times, but at least I can to try. You're acting as though jobs are wholly unplayable if you aren't bis. Like I just said above, I cleared Savage with Sophia's weapon. You don't need the best gear just to clear content. If you want to rotate jobs, find a static whose members feel the same.

It isn't to say I like the weekly limitations. I just am not bothered by them one way or another, and can appreciate why they're in place.

This is all talking about yourself. Not everyone is at the same skill level. Some people need a leg up to clear content. This means that for some people, they aren't going to clear until they've finally geared up a job, possibly for weeks or months.

If they were to change job, they'd have to go back in ilvl and be far worse off for it. So it's simply not an option.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I don't care what your motivation is, but the moment you insinuated that people would quit without additional gear to pursue, you insinuated that there were a significant number of players who play only for gear.

A lot do. Or rather they care about the proverbial carrot. Take away mounts from the extreme primals and I guarantee each and every single one will be dead content within a month; two tops. How many people complain about running the same two dungeons? If they could hit 2000 Scripture in a week and gear up their main job. How often do you think they'll keep running those same dungeons? I barely run them even with the tomestone restrictions. It's simple human nature. Most people won't do something unless they are in some way benefited. At least not consistently. No matter how nice and helpful someone may be, eventually they'll get tired. And this doesn't even take into consideration crafted gear becomes completely worthless. Who's going to buy gear of the market board for thousands when they can spam Gubal Hard ten times? What about Alex Normal. Clear it once and just spam dungeons for Scriptures. Even if you bump everything up to 260, people will then farm whatever happens to be fastest.

None of this insinuates players only play for gear. It merely posits most won't run content 20-30-50 times for no reason other than "the dungeon looks pretty."

A perfect example are the 24 man raids. Crystal Tower was dead content until the Anima forced us all back into it. How many people would run Void Ark/Weeping/Dun Scaith if they could get everything they wanted in a couple weeks-- less if they're willing to farm?

This is all talking about yourself. Not everyone is at the same skill level. Some people need a leg up to clear content. This means that for some people, they aren't going to clear until they've finally geared up a job, possibly for weeks or months.

If they were to change job, they'd have to go back in ilvl and be far worse off for it. So it's simply not an option.

Very few people abruptly change jobs during progression, especially as statics often try to build around what you're previously selected. How often does say, a Dragoon decide, "I want to go Bard" three weeks into Savage? A good number of statics would flatout kick you if you insist because they'll now have three ranged and you already agreed to play a melee. Even were that scenario to occur, it's not like you cannot obtain enough gear to make it work. A9/A10 were easily pug-able this tier. If you wanted to swap jobs, get some accessories and maybe something on your left side. If that still isn't enough, sorry but... plan ahead next time. You don't go into Savage level content thinking "I'll play and gear whatever. Everyone'll be okay with that!"

What you're asking is to design a system around people being indecisive. You have four weeks before you can even buy something with pages; six if it's anything except accessories. If you can't commit to one job by that point, it isn't the game's fault. Regardless, this still brings us back to if you can farm everything from the onset, you take away any incentive to keep playing later on. And as I already mentioned above, unlocking tomestones destroys most alternative gearing methods.

I don't like this idea that everyone should be limited because a few can't contain themselves. Also, we have a ceiling, it's not like older MMORPGs where the gap gets so big that you can't ever catch up. So a hardcore gets all the gear they want in one week while normal players takes one month or two... what's the harm? Everyone is still equal in the end.

Maybe caps serve their purpose when a new raid tier is released, but the next patch shouldn't be so rigid, just let people gear up and use their gear. Remember how much people would talk that it took more time to get your Relic than actually using it? I feel the same about a lot of weekly capped stuff.

Let's break it down.

3.4 released

ilvl 250 Proto-Alexandrian
ilvl 250 Crafted
ilvl 255 Sophic weapons
ilvl 260 Shire
ilvl 270 Alexandrian
ilvl 270 Augmented Shire

3.5 released

ilvl 260 Diabolic
ilvl 265 Zurvanite weapons
Shillings were added to upgrade Shire weekly
ilvl 270 Proto-Ultima accessories

From this list, we can immediately cross out all 250 gear and the 260 Diabolic. It's rendered instantly obsolete since why farm inferior gear with RNG when you can just spam faceroll dungeons? If the loot restrictions on Alex normal are also removed, well, you don't need Sophic weapons. People have no reason to run A9-11N more than once save occasional fun since you get nothing out of it; run A12N seven times per job and that's irrelevant next. By the time 3.5 drops, people literally only need to run Dun Scaith to upgrade their Shire. And if it lacks restrictions too, they can spam it. Even if you aren't hardcore, it doesn't take long nor do you need get everything. What about Solm Al and Baelsar's Wall? Four months later, even snail pace players will likely have farmed all they want scripture wise. Now you have two dungeons that will only be popular for a week or two as there's no reason to run them.

Basically, it invalidates a large amount of content. These restrictions are meant to keep people subbed. Some, like Momo will wait out the restrictions and return when they can gear however they please. Most won't. They'll play whenever the new patch launches and whether it takes two weeks or two month, be set gear wise and have no incentive to run any content. Raiders will be bis within the first month and likely unsub by 3.5 once they've exhausted speed killing and casual players will struggle dealing with slow queues in content no longer needed. I didn't even mention dungeon and diadem gear. It's pretty much DOA. Unfortunately, there has to be some form of limitation on progression in a sub based game. If not tomestones then RNG or some other potentially annoying restriction. Being able to get everything you want quickly removes player incentive to continuously play. Some games limit progression with week restrictions while others gate through immensely long grinds (Black Desert and Blade & Soul). They all serve the same purpose; keeping the majority of players subbed. I won't say FFXIV can't improve. It's certainly far from perfect, but there will always been a limit.

[MomomiMomi]

Very few people abruptly change jobs during progression, especially as statics often try to build around what you're previously selected. How often does say, a Dragoon decide, "I want to go Bard" three weeks into Savage? A good number of statics would flatout kick you if you insist because they'll now have three ranged and you already agreed to play a melee. Even were that scenario to occur, it's not like you cannot obtain enough gear to make it work. A9/A10 were easily pug-able this tier. If you wanted to swap jobs, get some accessories and maybe something on your left side. If that still isn't enough, sorry but... plan ahead next time. You don't go into Savage level content thinking "I'll play and gear whatever. Everyone'll be okay with that!"

What you're asking is to design a system around people being indecisive. You have four weeks before you can even buy something with pages; six if it's anything except accessories. If you can't commit to one job by that point, it isn't the game's fault. Regardless, this still brings us back to if you can farm everything from the onset, you take away any incentive to keep playing later on. And as I already mentioned above, unlocking tomestones destroys most alternative gearing methods.

What you're describing is a symptom of how the game currently works and is exactly what I'm talking about is the problem with how it currently works.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

What you're describing is a symptom of how the game currently works and is exactly what I'm talking about is the problem with how it currently works.

No. I am describing how statics work. These are community built and won't change regardless of gear restrictions or lack thereof unless you unlock savage too. They recruit based on jobs or roles and very few want their members randomly switching jobs. Like I said, most will kick you outright if you insist. They want commitment to specific things, not you bouncing around jobs. At least not during progression. Some of the more super casual may be more open to it, but even that's uncommon. None of this has anything to do with how the game's structured but how the community puts together statics.

[Arkune]

Usually, i am not up to get into "Why Raiders do need higher Ilevel Stuff" but to be honest, they deserve it. I am a non-raider since this Kind of Raids (Coil/Alex) doesnt apeal to me since it doesnt feel like a raid to me, just more like Primals. There is a reason why People raiding, some are just motivated to clear it and doesnt care about Gear and others (which is basicly the minority) do it for Looks and Ilevel to be ahead of everyoneelse who cannot Raid due RL issues or dont want to.

For me, SEs design is really bad because Tome Gear should be needed to get into Savage and not be the equivalent to the Raiders Gear. The numbers of Raiders in this Game (in my opinion) isnt that low because ist "too hard", its just low because it doesnt worth it.

SE added back to release of Alex a Normal Mode to let casual Players experience the Story and also gave them Gear as reward. Without the Gear Progression behind it, People would just do it once and would never touch it again.
Same goes for Savage, if it doesnt reward you in your desire, its not worth doin it, thats the Point.

People should stop asking to be carried from this Game, if you dont Raid, then the highest possible Ilevel isnt for you.

ps.: The reasson why Raiders "need" the highest Ilevel is because new Content get released over and over and should be allowed to get right into the next Raid Content and not farming Tomes again.

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

Usually, i am not up to get into "Why Raiders do need higher Ilevel Stuff" but to be honest, they deserve it. I am a non-raider since this Kind of Raids (Coil/Alex) doesnt apeal to me since it doesnt feel like a raid to me, just more like Primals. There is a reason why People raiding, some are just motivated to clear it and doesnt care about Gear and others (which is basicly the majority) do it for Looks and Ilevel to be ahead of everyoneelse who cannot Raid due RL issues or dont want to.

For me, SEs design is really bad because Tome Gear should be needed to get into Savage and not be the equivalent to the Raiders Gear. The numbers of Raiders in this Game (in my opinion) isnt that low because ist "too hard", its just low because it doesnt worth it.

SE added back to release of Alex a Normal Mode to let casual Players experience the Story and also gave them Gear as reward. Without the Gear Progression behind it, People would just do it once and would never touch it again.
Same goes for Savage, if it doesnt reward you in your desire, its not worth doin it, thats the Point.

People should stop asking to be carried from this Game, if you dont Raid, then the highest possible Ilevel isnt for you.

ps.: The reasson why Raiders "need" the highest Ilevel is because new Content get released over and over and should be allowed to get right into the next Raid Content and not farming Tomes again.

Again I don't agree.

At a quick glance, asking "why do non-raiders need similar ilvl gear to raiders" does look like a fair question. If you are not doing raids and world and dungeon mobs really don't get all that much tougher, why would you need to do 3k dps vs. 1k (making up numbers here)? The answer? First and Foremost this is a gear progression based game for the most part. Even casual players will get all their drops in dungeons or crafted gear eventually. And once that happens where do you go from there? Without a continuous goal to strive for, players end up drifting away. Case in point, the reduction of players waiting for Stormblood. Most of them likely have all the gear they need and have little to work towards in the lull before the xpac drops.

SE tries to get us content on a regular basis, but in all honesty they will never ever be able to produce it as quickly as we consume it. So it gives players something to work towards if raiding doesn't fit their play style. This is one of the reasons tomestone gear exists and is as good as it is. Those non-raiders have something to work towards after they've gotten what they can get from the content they engage in. Raiders also benefit from it as tomestone gear supplements their raid drops allowing them to make up for poor rng and/or get geared faster.

I've mentioned this before but player power is one of the biggest motivators to play the game and SE most certainly wants as many people playing the game as possible. Player power also doesn't exist in a vacuum. If the gear disparity is too great between raiders and non-raiders, then raiders have a large advantage in ALL content, not just raiding. Saying that the "majority" of raiders raid just to clear the content is BS. Because if that were true, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now, and raiders wouldn't have had a conniption fit over Gordias Savage and the Anima going to 275.

Ultimately the game as a whole benefits from keeping the gear gaps small. Why? Because, simply put, it eases the engaging of ALL content. As a raider, you'll invariably lose members of your static to a variety of reasons from burn out to babies. Getting new raiders to fill that spot isn't always easy, but a small gear gap does help in that regard in that your pool of potential recruits will typically not be too far behind gearwise for the raid content you're engaging in. In non-raid content, how many of us /facepalm when we see someone in our dungeon who's just gotten to a high enough ilvl to qualify for it? The runs go slower when the lower ilvl tank has only half the hp of the raid tank, or the low ilvl healer can't keep up with healing large pulls, or the low ilvl dps can't kill the packs fast enough for the tank and healer to last through. It's less fun for everyone. While that's inevitable to some degree, for the most part people don't stay at those ilvls for too long since the tomestone gear does allow them to catch up in a decent amount of time.

There's more to endgame in FFXIV than raiding and that's something that I think many people struggle with. FFXIV is not really a "raid or die" game. It's more a "raid if you want a small edge and access to exclusive cosmetics (armor models, mounts, etc)" type of game. The difference in player power due to gear is very small in FFXIV and thats a good thing! Why? Because it makes it so skill will make more of a difference in your performance than just having a huge gap in ilvl between players. It also gives players who aren't raiders something to strive for and facilitates their entry into raiding if they so desire.

If anyone can't see the benefits of the small gear gap we have in FFXIV right now, then I say they either aren't looking hard enough, or they're too self centered to see the bigger picture.

[Nixxe]

A lot do. Or rather they care about the proverbial carrot. Take away mounts from the extreme primals and I guarantee each and every single one will be dead content within a month; two tops. How many people complain about running the same two dungeons? If they could hit 2000 Scripture in a week and gear up their main job. How often do you think they'll keep running those same dungeons? I barely run them even with the tomestone restrictions. It's simple human nature. Most people won't do something unless they are in some way benefited. At least not consistently. No matter how nice and helpful someone may be, eventually they'll get tired. And this doesn't even take into consideration crafted gear becomes completely worthless. Who's going to buy gear of the market board for thousands when they can spam Gubal Hard ten times? What about Alex Normal. Clear it once and just spam dungeons for Scriptures. Even if you bump everything up to 260, people will then farm whatever happens to be fastest.

None of this insinuates players only play for gear. It merely posits most won't run content 20-30-50 times for no reason other than "the dungeon looks pretty."

A perfect example are the 24 man raids. Crystal Tower was dead content until the Anima forced us all back into it. How many people would run Void Ark/Weeping/Dun Scaith if they could get everything they wanted in a couple weeks-- less if they're willing to farm?

It's really not possible to have a productive conversation on this topic if you want to keep conflating the specific issue of gear with the broader concept of having any reason whatsoever to do the content. Ponies are decidedly not gear related and are the perfect example of things that will keep people doing content even if you let them gear up quickly and easily. There are still pony farm groups, actual pony farms, not birds, even to this day. The gear is worthless, but the cosmetic reward never loses value so long as there are people who don't have it and want it. Gear is a very temporary incentive even at the best of times.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

It's really not possible to have a productive conversation on this topic if you want to keep conflating the specific issue of gear with the broader concept of having any reason whatsoever to do the content. Ponies are decidedly not gear related and are the perfect example of things that will keep people doing content even if you let them gear up quickly and easily. There are still pony farm groups, actual pony farms, not birds, even to this day. The gear is worthless, but the cosmetic reward never loses value so long as there are people who don't have it and want it. Gear is a very temporary incentive even at the best of times.

So what, you're going to put mounts in every piece content in the entire game? That inherently devalues them. Your idea of a "productive conversation" seems to hinge on "weekly lock outs suck and need to be abandoned" with no willingness to accept the inevitably consequences such a decision renders. If people can have everything at all one time, they have no reason to continuously play. It's why nearly every mutli-player game builds micro-translation around avoiding an exceedingly long grind. There always has to be some hurdle, be it tediously grinds, weekly lockouts or RNG. Gear being a temporary incentive is why it works. People want power not just cosmetics. There is no sense of progression if you can literally get everything from the word go. All you accomplish is wearing your playerbase out. Right now, people farm mounts as a side activity. What you're purposing is it becomes the literal selling feature of the game since everything else is unlocked. That has diminishing returns, more so than gear ever will.