What is it with some tanks, healers, and dps?

[Adire]

It's nice to know you think people with disabilities are a "dead weight" to you. Do you seriously believe that?

Look at what you quoted and read again. If you're going to twist words and ignore obvious context, at least do a good job of it.

[Doozer]

I'd say the problem stems from two issues:

The game is horrid at teaching people how to properly play. The only way to be good at this game is to look at guides online.

The game lets people get away with playing poorly and doesn't really encourage people to get better.

And lots of players get bullied and yelled at to "git gud", even when they did nothing wrong, thus discouraging them from playing at all, and they just end up quitting. And if I had a nickel for every "mentor" that didn't actually mentor new players. I don't want this to devolve into a whinge party about mentors, I'm simply saying I've noticed a lot of times mentors just don't bother teaching the new players.

[Kaethra]

Where is the community going.

You bring up some good facts. But its not just FFXIV. Other games, MMOs and even simple multiplayer games have the same issue. The problem is cultural. And even extends beyond gaming in general though I'm not going to go there as that topic goes beyond the scope of these forums.

In general its apathy. Both towards others and one's self. In your example of not getting a raise.. if this was 15 years ago, you'd have been raised/rez'd in a heart beat. Even 10 years ago you would have been picked up.. maybe ribbed a bit for dying, but still picked up.

Now its 'just another dumb DPS that got themselves killed, whatever.' Never mind the reason, the condition, or whatever. Even I've been known to make offhand comments in my TS server to my friends when something like that happens to a random in the group. Course.. I still pick up the person as I don't hold such happenstances against them. Even if I utter something stupid under my breath. I'm not going to allow my annoyance (or amusement) to hurt them.

But not everyone is like that unfortunately. My point of view is everyone gets a shot. Everyone gets a mulligan. Everyone gets a chance to have fun so long as they aren't trying to wreck it for anyone. Basically if everyone is being cool to one another. I'm going to overlook mistakes. I'm going to pick up the slack. That's just what you do in a team oriented environment. It is a game after all.

And truth be told, its usually like that. People are cool. I've had the luxury of the last few days of good groups. People chat a little, as much as they can considering working through the content. Crack a joke, and just all round being pleasant towards one another. We do sometimes remember the bad more than the good. I can remember quite vividly a group I ran about 2 weeks ago where someone had the gall to tell me I was bad at my healing because I didn't rez him mid fight (was low on MP and tank was low on HP, the thing called priority kicked in). To make a long story short, I let the insults roll off my back until the dumb player decided to keep it up till the end of the dungeon. So I vote kicked him. Apparently the group was waiting for me to do it. And glad to see him go. Smooth sailing after that.

But today I ran at least six or seven dungeons and all were outstanding. Some close calls from incidents beyond our control (just bad luck). But no one got antsy, everyone understood and we just kept at it. More importantly, had fun.

[Doozer]

Look at what you quoted and read again. If you're going to twist words and ignore obvious context, at least do a good job of it.

You said that being disabled is a good excuse for being a "dead weight", as if people who are "dead weights" are often disabled. Maybe you shouldn't have included it at all. There was no reason to take a stab at disabled people, regardless of what you claim you're implying. I read it, thanks. If you weren't trying to insult disabled people, maybe you should've been more clear. I'm sure all your experience with disabled people would teach you that not everyone understands what you're implying with short sentences that don't have much detail (I'm saying this as a disabled person, hi, hello).

[Adire]

You said that being disabled is a good excuse for being a "dead weight", as if people who are "dead weights" are often disabled. Maybe you shouldn't have included it at all. There was no reason to take a stab at disabled people, regardless of what you claim you're implying. I read it, thanks.

You read it but clearly didn't understand then.

I was saying being handicapped mentally or physically is a valid excuse for sub-par play, nothing else is.

[Kaethra]

You said that being disabled is a good excuse for being a "dead weight", as if people who are "dead weights" are often disabled. Maybe you shouldn't have included it at all. There was no reason to take a stab at disabled people, regardless of what you claim you're implying. I read it, thanks. If you weren't trying to insult disabled people, maybe you should've been more clear. I'm sure all your experience with disabled people would teach you that not everyone understands what you're implying with short sentences that don't have much detail.

You're nitpicking and whiteknighting. Sure what they said was in bad taste. But if we're going to debate him, lets do so on the merits of the discussion itself. Or ignore them.

[Silverquick]

The average MMO player:

Does not normally visit the games' forums.
Usually doesn't look at guides.
Likely doesn't understand the way their abilities interact.
Will know their role, but maybe not efficiently.
Doesn't know exactly what stats they need.
Knows telegraphs on the ground are bad, but may be slow to react/predict.
May not have their hotbar setup efficiently.
And various other little issues that just sort of addup over time to make them a detriment in some cases.

And you all are suggesting these people need slower leveling to learn class/role? It already takes about a few days speed leveling. A not above average player will likely take a week... probably more. If they haven't figured out their current abilities within an hour. How do you all expect them figure it out in a month?

The only thing that can help is a friendly mentor. A Freecompany member, friend, or what have you, sitting down and chatting with them about what to use, when, and why. Then they have to be receptive to the teaching and willing to learn and consider. Then maybe.. just maybe they might go beyond being 'average'. Many of them won't have the patience, some might think they are 'fine', others sadly will just not understand even when presented. There's nothing else that can be done at that point..

I get what you're saying man, I really do.

But seriously this game is worse than most for the speed level thing. I was just talking about this with my FC. I never even got to enjoy my newbie days which is where you get the chance to make all those mistakes before you get to the harder content and get thrown in with everyone else.

I was joking the other day along the lines of...

Ahhh... aahhhh... ahhh CHOOO!!...

DING!!...

...crap I leveled again.

If you sneeze wrong in this game you gain a level. And now you have guys that moved so fast... they never got that little grace period to make all those mistakes... so they're now making all those mistakes at the highest levels of the game where the people around them are actually expecting them to know what they're doing... and are very unforgiving about it.

Its not the newbies fault when the game slingshots him right into the place where everyone would reasonably expect them to be competent at what they're doing. Nor is it the upper level players fault for expecting them to be at least reasonably competent at those levels.

So you're in a catch 22...

[Doozer]

...

Even despite your very obvious ableism, you're still wrong. There's so many reasons why someone might be playing bad. Let's list them out, shall we.

1. Lag
2. Hardware-based technical difficulties
3. Someone might be distracting them
4. A pet stepped on their mouse or keyboard
5. They're fairly new (like <200 hours) and no one has corrected them
6. They're not obsessed with reaching maximum DPS or whatever because they just want to have fun in a game
7. They're tired
8. They're intoxicated in some way (if I had a nickel for every person that said "lmao smokin' weed")
9. They've had a bad day

Should I go on?

[LunarEmerald]

I get what you're saying man, I really do.

But seriously this game is worse than most for the speed level thing. I was just talking about this with my FC. I never even got to enjoy my newbie days which is where you get the chance to make all those mistakes before you get to the harder content and get thrown in with everyone else.

I was joking the other day along the lines of...

Ahhh... aahhhh... ahhh CHOOO!!...

DING!!...

...crap I leveled again.

If you sneeze wrong in this game you gain a level. And now you have guys that moved so fast... they never got that little grace period to make all those mistakes... so they're now making all those mistakes at the highest levels of the game where the people around them are actually expecting them to know what they're doing... and are very unforgiving about it.

Its not the newbies fault when the game slingshots him right into the place where everyone would reasonably expect them to be competent at what they're doing. Nor is it the upper level players fault for expecting them to be at least reasonably competent at those levels.

So you're in a catch 22...

This is caused because people complain that the leveling progress is boring. They want to be at max level right away so they can play with their max level friends.

ARR fails at this because leveling in this game for the first time is pretty boring and the majority of ARR's main quest is garbage. The proper solution would be to make ARR good by pruning unnecessary quests but that's too time consuming for YoshiP. He rather apply a bandaid fix by making leveling faster.

[Doozer]

You're nitpicking and whiteknighting.

Whiteknighting is when you defend a group of people that you're not a part of. I'm disabled, both physically and mentally. I'm defending my damn self.