What is it with some tanks, healers, and dps?

[Kaethra]

Its not the newbies fault when the game slingshots him right into the place where everyone would reasonably expect them to be competent at what they're doing. Nor is it the upper level players fault for expecting them to be at least reasonably competent at those levels.

So you're in a catch 22...

I don't agree.

I remember doing Praetorium when it was new. When most hadn't done it yet. You know back before we all sped run the place and 6 out of 8 were watching cutscenes. There was still the handful here and there (about the same ratio as today) that didn't know their job and role. Its not because they leveled too fast. They just didn't learn it.

Part of this could be due to the game (and MMOs in general) allowing you to solo just a bit too much. Everquest in the 1999-2006 timeframe was not a solo friendly game. You typically solo'd to level 5. You could get away with maybe 35-40 on all the classes, but it'd be slow going. Either way, you'd hit what I'd call a soloing cap. Because the stuff you want to solo, is usually going to be much lower than you. Once you get to a certain point, the stuff you can take on will stop giving exp.

Yes.. some classes were a bit better than others for soloing. But you had to really know what you were going to be doing when you did it, as there was a regression penalty for failure.

But with that said. I am NOT prepared to say that soloing needs to go. And I'm not going to say that we need penalties for failure harsher than they are. There's a reason why that game peaked out at 750,000 in 2005 and we have millions here. But I bring it up to explain a bit of the situation.

But even still, like I said, some just won't get it. I mentioned friends earlier.. I met them in EQ. They weren't good at the game. If it weren't for my help, they'd never be able to do post level 40 content in that game when max level was 70. Imagine if they came to FFXIV and ended up in your group in Duty Finder. No worries, I'm not going to do that to all of you

Could be worse. Could be like Planetside 2 which as a MMOFPS takes a fresh level 1 out of character creation and drops them in the middle of 100-120's and they're expected to learn.. quick. To put it shortly, those who can learn, do so. Those that don't, well they just don't unfortunately.

[Adire]

Even despite your very obvious ableism, you're still wrong. There's so many reasons why someone might be playing bad. Let's list them out, shall we.

1. Lag
2. Hardware-based technical difficulties
3. Someone might be distracting them
4. A pet stepped on their mouse or keyboard
5. They're fairly new (like <200 hours) and no one has corrected them
6. They're not obsessed with reaching maximum DPS or whatever because they just want to have fun in a game
7. They're tired
8. They're intoxicated in some way (if I had a nickel for every person that said "lmao smokin' weed")
9. They've had a bad day

Should I go on?

Alright, ignore reality if you want. It's your right.

1. If you're consistently lagging to the point where you're significantly impacting the run, you should leave. If you don't you're being selfish and you're at fault. Play again when you're able to without ruining other people's runs.
2. If your computer or console are struggling to run the game and it's impacting the group, you should leave.
3. If you're not paying attention to the game, don't do team content. It's rude to not give your all.
4. If your pet is distracting constantly, see the above.
5. There are guides all over the place and everyone has the opportunity to practice as well as to ask for advice. Not being prepared is your own fault.
6. You can have fun and still do your best.
7. They should play when they're more rested or at least capable of functioning where they're not being carried instead of detrimenting 3 other people.
8. Intoxicated is the least acceptable excuse for carrying someone ever.
9. They shouldn't ruin other peoples' days if they had a bad day.

Feel free to go on. I'm sure every reason you have is something preventable by the person in question if they just considered other people. Don't try to justify being inconsiderate of the group.

[Doozer]

snip

A problem having a solution doesn't not make it a valid reason for what's happening. You say I'm ignoring reality, but you're saying that because some causes have solutions, that means they should never occur. And you're acting like those things are persistent issues. Like someone being distracted is a valid reason when, for example, they're in a boss fight and someone comes into the room to talk to them, and that diverts their attention for a second too long and they don't move out of an AoE in time. Or something on their computer minimized the game and they weren't able to heal the tank at a critical time and they wiped.

Like are you even trying to understand at all. There are varying reasons that explain why someone might not have done something correctly when you wanted them to. How about you consider other people instead.

[Adire]

A problem having a solution doesn't not make it a valid reason for what's happening. You say I'm ignoring reality, but you're saying that because some causes have solutions, that means they should never occur. And you're acting like those things are persistent issues. Like someone being distracted is a valid reason when, for example, they're in a boss fight and someone comes into the room to talk to them, and that diverts their attention for a second too long and they don't move out of an AoE in time. Or something on their computer minimized the game and they weren't able to heal the tank at a critical time and they wiped.

Like are you even trying to understand at all. There are varying reasons that explain why someone might not have done something correctly when you wanted them to. How about you consider other people instead.

You are ignoring reality. You accuse me of being an "ableist" despite me saying clearly that physical and mental disability are valid excuses for poor play.

I don't think you're understanding. If someone has something happen in the middle of a fight, that's fine. Things happen. If it's constant throughout the dungeon, enough to make DPS for example be abysmally low for multiple pulls, then the problems need to be solved or the person/people causing the problems need to leave until they can get them solved.

Sorry, but I give my full effort and attention for at least the majority of a dungeon if not the entirety of it every time. I don't queue if I know I won't be able to and I do not accept poor play on my own part. I am considerate because of this. I refuse to be a detriment to the group. People who smoke a joint then queue into a dungeon high and unable to function properly....that's being inconsiderate. As is queuing with any of the other reasons you listed going on regularly.

Think before you queue.

Be considerate of your group and don't intentionally be or remain a negative effect on it.

In the JP community, it is unacceptable to be dead weight. I don't know why some people argue that it's fine here. I'm going to stop carrying obvious apathetic or lazy players and just start autoattacking, then we can all enjoy an 80 minute run while I afk on youtube.

[Doozer]

You are ignoring reality.

If you could make a valid point against what I said without saying I'm "ignoring reality", that would be super neato. Being condescending isn't necessary.

Like I'm saying sometimes bad things happen, that aren't anyone's fault, and a person gets blamed for being "sub-par". And if you have such a problem with people not playing the way you want, you can a) try to help them, or b) remove yourself from the situation. Like, all of your "solutions" to someone not performing the way you want are all on that person. None of them involve you actually doing anything to fix it. Like don't tell them they're not playing the way you want, just think really hard that they're ignoring reality and hope they magically become a better player. If you're not going to be part of the solution, don't bother complaining.

[Adire]

....

Or, instead of saying it's acceptable to be a sub-par player and it's acceptable to be detrimental to your group, we can actually encourage people to self-improve and self-discipline. And to be considerate of the time and experience of the other 3 people they're doing a run with.

It's no wonder the JP community doesn't seem to take the NA/EU communities seriously....

[FedoraTheExplorer]

Anxiety and horrendous coordination means I suck at everything.

[Doozer]

Or, instead of saying it's acceptable to be a sub-par player and it's acceptable to be detrimental to your group, we can actually encourage people to self-improve and self-discipline. And to be considerate of the time and experience of the other 3 people they're doing a run with.

Quit ignoring reality, you have no desire to help people improve. You want them to just Be Good or not waste your precious time.

[Adire]

Quit ignoring reality, you have no desire to help people improve. You want them to just Be Good or not waste your precious time.

You're clearly just trolling :P .

Have a nice day!

[Doozer]

You're clearly just trolling :P .

Have a nice day!

I will, being a sub-par disabled dead weight.