What is it with some tanks, healers, and dps?

[Adire]

You said that being disabled is a good excuse for being a "dead weight", as if people who are "dead weights" are often disabled. Maybe you shouldn't have included it at all. There was no reason to take a stab at disabled people, regardless of what you claim you're implying. I read it, thanks.

You read it but clearly didn't understand then.

I was saying being handicapped mentally or physically is a valid excuse for sub-par play, nothing else is.

[Doozer]

...

Even despite your very obvious ableism, you're still wrong. There's so many reasons why someone might be playing bad. Let's list them out, shall we.

1. Lag
2. Hardware-based technical difficulties
3. Someone might be distracting them
4. A pet stepped on their mouse or keyboard
5. They're fairly new (like <200 hours) and no one has corrected them
6. They're not obsessed with reaching maximum DPS or whatever because they just want to have fun in a game
7. They're tired
8. They're intoxicated in some way (if I had a nickel for every person that said "lmao smokin' weed")
9. They've had a bad day

Should I go on?

[Adire]

Even despite your very obvious ableism, you're still wrong. There's so many reasons why someone might be playing bad. Let's list them out, shall we.

1. Lag
2. Hardware-based technical difficulties
3. Someone might be distracting them
4. A pet stepped on their mouse or keyboard
5. They're fairly new (like <200 hours) and no one has corrected them
6. They're not obsessed with reaching maximum DPS or whatever because they just want to have fun in a game
7. They're tired
8. They're intoxicated in some way (if I had a nickel for every person that said "lmao smokin' weed")
9. They've had a bad day

Should I go on?

Alright, ignore reality if you want. It's your right.

1. If you're consistently lagging to the point where you're significantly impacting the run, you should leave. If you don't you're being selfish and you're at fault. Play again when you're able to without ruining other people's runs.
2. If your computer or console are struggling to run the game and it's impacting the group, you should leave.
3. If you're not paying attention to the game, don't do team content. It's rude to not give your all.
4. If your pet is distracting constantly, see the above.
5. There are guides all over the place and everyone has the opportunity to practice as well as to ask for advice. Not being prepared is your own fault.
6. You can have fun and still do your best.
7. They should play when they're more rested or at least capable of functioning where they're not being carried instead of detrimenting 3 other people.
8. Intoxicated is the least acceptable excuse for carrying someone ever.
9. They shouldn't ruin other peoples' days if they had a bad day.

Feel free to go on. I'm sure every reason you have is something preventable by the person in question if they just considered other people. Don't try to justify being inconsiderate of the group.

[Doozer]

snip

A problem having a solution doesn't not make it a valid reason for what's happening. You say I'm ignoring reality, but you're saying that because some causes have solutions, that means they should never occur. And you're acting like those things are persistent issues. Like someone being distracted is a valid reason when, for example, they're in a boss fight and someone comes into the room to talk to them, and that diverts their attention for a second too long and they don't move out of an AoE in time. Or something on their computer minimized the game and they weren't able to heal the tank at a critical time and they wiped.

Like are you even trying to understand at all. There are varying reasons that explain why someone might not have done something correctly when you wanted them to. How about you consider other people instead.

[Adire]

A problem having a solution doesn't not make it a valid reason for what's happening. You say I'm ignoring reality, but you're saying that because some causes have solutions, that means they should never occur. And you're acting like those things are persistent issues. Like someone being distracted is a valid reason when, for example, they're in a boss fight and someone comes into the room to talk to them, and that diverts their attention for a second too long and they don't move out of an AoE in time. Or something on their computer minimized the game and they weren't able to heal the tank at a critical time and they wiped.

Like are you even trying to understand at all. There are varying reasons that explain why someone might not have done something correctly when you wanted them to. How about you consider other people instead.

You are ignoring reality. You accuse me of being an "ableist" despite me saying clearly that physical and mental disability are valid excuses for poor play.

I don't think you're understanding. If someone has something happen in the middle of a fight, that's fine. Things happen. If it's constant throughout the dungeon, enough to make DPS for example be abysmally low for multiple pulls, then the problems need to be solved or the person/people causing the problems need to leave until they can get them solved.

Sorry, but I give my full effort and attention for at least the majority of a dungeon if not the entirety of it every time. I don't queue if I know I won't be able to and I do not accept poor play on my own part. I am considerate because of this. I refuse to be a detriment to the group. People who smoke a joint then queue into a dungeon high and unable to function properly....that's being inconsiderate. As is queuing with any of the other reasons you listed going on regularly.

Think before you queue.

Be considerate of your group and don't intentionally be or remain a negative effect on it.

In the JP community, it is unacceptable to be dead weight. I don't know why some people argue that it's fine here. I'm going to stop carrying obvious apathetic or lazy players and just start autoattacking, then we can all enjoy an 80 minute run while I afk on youtube.

[Doozer]

You are ignoring reality.

If you could make a valid point against what I said without saying I'm "ignoring reality", that would be super neato. Being condescending isn't necessary.

Like I'm saying sometimes bad things happen, that aren't anyone's fault, and a person gets blamed for being "sub-par". And if you have such a problem with people not playing the way you want, you can a) try to help them, or b) remove yourself from the situation. Like, all of your "solutions" to someone not performing the way you want are all on that person. None of them involve you actually doing anything to fix it. Like don't tell them they're not playing the way you want, just think really hard that they're ignoring reality and hope they magically become a better player. If you're not going to be part of the solution, don't bother complaining.

[Adire]

....

Or, instead of saying it's acceptable to be a sub-par player and it's acceptable to be detrimental to your group, we can actually encourage people to self-improve and self-discipline. And to be considerate of the time and experience of the other 3 people they're doing a run with.

It's no wonder the JP community doesn't seem to take the NA/EU communities seriously....

[TitaniumVulpes]

You accuse me of being an "ableist" despite me saying clearly that physical and mental disability are valid excuses for poor play.

Pretty sure he called you ableist for equating disability with poor play, and in my opinion it is kind of weird to single it out as a valid excuse. I remember my first run through the Great Gubal Library, the first boss made my computer lag, I got stressed, almost had an autistic meltdown, and eventually did have a minor seizure. The second time I fought the boss, I zoomed the camera in so that I wouldn't have any of those problems and did just fine. I was dead weight because I was new, not because of my disabilities; they just mean I have to learn how to combat whatever triggers might show up. Refusing to learn how to handle your disability isn't any more valid an excuse than any other excuse that's been mentioned imo.

[Adire]

....

I doubt it. I wasn't even saying everyone who is disabled plays poorly. I myself have severe social anxiety, yet I push myself to excel. Disabilities are oftentimes uncontrollable. If they have a permanent effect on your play, there's nothing you can do. In his little list however, all of those things can be easily avoided if people are simply considerate of their groups.

Unfortunately, it seems some will argue day and night that we should accept that some players won't put in effort. If everyone stopped carrying said players through content, it would be interesting to see the results.

[BigRed5392]

A problem having a solution doesn't not make it a valid reason for what's happening. You say I'm ignoring reality, but you're saying that because some causes have solutions, that means they should never occur. And you're acting like those things are persistent issues. Like someone being distracted is a valid reason when, for example, they're in a boss fight and someone comes into the room to talk to them, and that diverts their attention for a second too long and they don't move out of an AoE in time. Or something on their computer minimized the game and they weren't able to heal the tank at a critical time and they wiped.

Like are you even trying to understand at all. There are varying reasons that explain why someone might not have done something correctly when you wanted them to. How about you consider other people instead.

welcome to what I was dealing with. I used my g/f experiences to point out how their behavior/ behavior of others is causing stress and negativity to others, and that people are lashing out with the assumption that everyone is a toxic player. They just gonna talk circles dude. I feel ya most of those happen to my g.f and myself one time or another.

to everyone else, take a step back and look how rude you're being, if not a bit selfish.

No excuse how most of you are replying....