What is it with some tanks, healers, and dps?

[KDSilver]

People are to be blamed for this.
Not everyone. Some of them.

Which one? Those who don't take the time to read the description of their skill at least, especially when they leveled up very fast.
Those who are trying and learning, it's okay, you need to practice anyway to feel confortable with your class and dungeons are the best way to do it.
The worst player are those who play terribly bad, probably never read the description of their skill, and when you nicely try to tell them what they should do, they insult you or refuse to consider what you're telling them.

But, in dungeons, you have to expect to meet every kind of player if you go in with the duty finder.
But, indeed, there are some basics you shouldn't explain to someone at lvl60. When I say basics, it's skill from lvl 1 to 30.

[AmalonStar]

OP, have you stopped to ask them why they're performing that way, or perhaps offer them tips? The game doesn't really guide people enough for them to always know how to maximize their potential at any level, and some people just don't know. If you're not going to try to help them, then don't complain about them I guess?

I have tried on numerous occasions most of the time I get hostility back from them when I ask them if they want some tips other times they just say no. In some cases I just don't know enough about the job they're playing to be able to offer any advice.

I've noticed a good number of ppl develop an attitude of 'I don't need any help, I know what I'm doing' when they start getting up higher lv's. I actually knew a person exactly like that, he figured he was the 'best' and if something went wrong he blamed everyone else for it. He was probably the worst tank I had ever seen and refused any advice offered to him by everyone.

[KDSilver]

To the guy questioning whether help has been offered
Or not:

I have tried that many times and in 95% of cases my offer to help
has been met with silence or attitude.
("Hey ast I noticed you haven't been playing any cards.
May I ask why?" -"they arent needed.I play how I want").
It is quite discouraging tbh. In many cases, at least on EU servers,
it's probably because of the language barrier.

Honestly, I'm patient.
But if I had this kind of player responding like this when you want to help him to improve, well, i would have probably vote kick him.
You can understand someone is learning and need time. But when you want to be nice and teach others and that's what you get in return...
Well, guess he'll "play as he want" out of the dungeons then.

[Faliandra]

Honestly, I'm patient.
But if I had this kind of player responding like this when you want to help him to improve, well, i would have probably vote kick him.
You can understand someone is learning and need time. But when you want to be nice and teach others and that's what you get in return...
Well, guess he'll "play as he want" out of the dungeons then.

You know I DID try to get him kicked out
But everyone else refused the vote kick.
I asked why they keep encouraging lazy play styles
And they said it's because it isn't interfering
With the dungeon progress.

It's madness. And it's not the first time
This has happened. Now you might think these people
Knew each other and had a premade party but....
Nope. All from different servers.
And it's not the first time I have seen this happening.

I don't know what's worse.
People refusing to do their job or people encouraging
This kind of behaviour.

[Kaethra]

The average MMO player:

Does not normally visit the games' forums.
Usually doesn't look at guides.
Likely doesn't understand the way their abilities interact.
Will know their role, but maybe not efficiently.
Doesn't know exactly what stats they need.
Knows telegraphs on the ground are bad, but may be slow to react/predict.
May not have their hotbar setup efficiently.
And various other little issues that just sort of addup over time to make them a detriment in some cases.

The good news is, a sizeable portion of these players realize their limitations and either get educated, practiced, or steer clear away from content where they know they are a drag. Others are either ignorant or arrogant.

So what can be done? Sadly nothing. You can kinda help them along if they are willing to be helped. But as far as SE is concerned there is no developer oriented change in the game that can be done. None.

Sadly how MMOs work is you either 'get it' or you don't. Anyone who grew up on Atari's, Intellivisions, and NES's will understand what I mean. If you remember in the late '70s and early '80s everyone tried video games. Some took to them well and became the first gamers. Others had fun, but lets face it.. they couldn't get to the blue screen in Astrosmash or past that first Goomba in SMB.

Some of you are saying that leveling is too fast. Too many are using PotD to level. I'm going to tell you this. It doesn't matter. An above average player can be thrown into the game at level 60, and make it work. Hell I did something like this to myself earlier today. Friend of mine wanted to do the Leveling roulette. NP.. cept he wanted to do it on his Warrior. Well shoot.. I wanted to run on my DK to level it. I already got my healer to 60, and the DPS I wanted to work on to 60. So what do I do, I want to put the exp to 'something'.

I took my summoner. I hadn't played the class since 2014. Hell even then I didn't level as a summoner, I did Scholar. Anyway.. I swapped in the gear and my hotbars seemed to be where I left them. Yeah the hell they were. So we load into the DF and get Stone Vigil. I'm sitting there using Ruin when I realize.. its an 80 potency attack. Well crap. I need to do something else. This isn't procing anything. While were on the first two pulls I'm glancing over my stuff.

Bio, Bio II, Aetherflow, Miasma, Fester, and Bane. Ok got it. Do this on groups, do that on single target. Before I got to the first boss, I had my level 43 rotation down, maybe not the level 50 one. But for what I was doing, I got it. That took me less than 5 minutes.

And you all are suggesting these people need slower leveling to learn class/role? It already takes about a few days speed leveling. A not above average player will likely take a week... probably more. If they haven't figured out their current abilities within an hour. How do you all expect them figure it out in a month?

The only thing that can help is a friendly mentor. A Freecompany member, friend, or what have you, sitting down and chatting with them about what to use, when, and why. Then they have to be receptive to the teaching and willing to learn and consider. Then maybe.. just maybe they might go beyond being 'average'. Many of them won't have the patience, some might think they are 'fine', others sadly will just not understand even when presented. There's nothing else that can be done at that point.

It does not take a month, weeks, or days to learn a job or role. Hell I've learned how to play classes/jobs in this game and others simply by reading lists of abilities on a website, even before I first login to the game. Not everyone can do that. And limiting where leveling can be done, or slowing it down does not help them and it punishes those of us who wish to get into the newer content. I already know how to do 1-60, I don't need to be slowed down on jobs that I still need to work on. Especially on a feckless attempt to help players with an issue that likely can't be helped (and those who can be helped, can simply be helped in a peer to peer manner).

This isn't to say to totally ignore and and wipe our hands clean of such players. I have a few friends in other games who have this issue. They know their limitation. I help them when I play the same games when I can. But they'll never do current end game content in any game. They shy away even from group content unless its a requirement for something. They're happy to do solo content that they know they can do.

[AmalonStar]

Part of the problem I find actually is that ppl just do what they want simply because most of the time ppl will just keep going and get that dungeon done and over with than kick someone and wait for someone new to join. I blame the duty finder as one of the catalysts for lazy players not learning thier jobs because it just simply puts the party together for you so you don't need to learn your job.

[KDSilver]

There's a difference between not kwowing everything your class can do and refusing to do it on purpose.
There's no point in playing astrologian over white mage if you're not drawing cards at all.
This isn't like everyone like to say "a different playstyle" (it's commonly used nowadays to justify any kind of behaviour it would seem...)
It's just being lazy indeed, but no reason.

Like one day, I went to Dun Scaith as a Dragoon. I died (while I though I did the mecanic right, but it can happen to everyone).
I waited a Raise.... I waited... both healer were dpsing and.... i had nothing?
So of course I asked if I could get a Raise. The healer told me that I didn't have to die. Having a healer who refuse to raise is something bad for such a content as 24 man raid so, I vote kicked him. The other healer got offended that it was a vote kick abuse because we can't vote kick someone because he has a "different playstyle".
Refusing to raise as a healer is a "playstyle".

Where is the community going. The worst thing, he didn't got kick. (probably because he was a healer, but even so...)

[KDSilver]

And you all are suggesting these people need slower leveling to learn class/role? It already takes about a few days speed leveling. A not above average player will likely take a week... probably more. If they haven't figured out their current abilities within an hour. How do you all expect them figure it out in a month?

The problem isn't to level up fast actually. Where it is a problem is that these people get many new skill but are lazy to understand how it works.
I think that's it.
Of course, if you try to understand, you can level up fast and actually perform well. The least that could be expected.

[Doozer]

there's no good excuse past perhaps having a mental or physical handicap for continuing to be dead weight in a party past level 30 or so.

It's nice to know you think people with disabilities are a "dead weight" to you. Do you seriously believe that?

[LunarEmerald]

I'd say the problem stems from two issues:

The game is horrid at teaching people how to properly play. The only way to be good at this game is to look at guides online.

The game lets people get away with playing poorly and doesn't really encourage people to get better. YoshiP is so paranoid about players hitting a brickwall and giving up that he's afraid to force them to improve to pass anything in the main story. Even class/job quests will continually give you echo when you repeatedly fail and the echo gets progressively stronger.