Should the Heavensward Leveling dungeons and trials have item level requirements?

[Ama_Hamada]

This is a pretty poor analogy that also fails to capture my argument and my reasoning. For our purposes, simply hearing a cricket would constitute encountering one, as we know with quite a bit of certainty what a cricket sounds like and can therefore confidently identify crickets and recognize their presence simply from the sound. However, what hearing a cricket or a few crickets wouldn't tell you, especially if the ones you're listeningto are in a cage on the desk of an entomologist, is how common they are out in the wild. Sure, they may seem really common if you consider only the cage filled with crickets, but it's a poor reflection of reality. Furthermore, you're essentially accusing me of making a hasty generalization (somewhat ironic, given that's ultimately what people are doing to argue in favor of this), but my argument is purely statistical in nature: the more runs I do without encountering the problem, the less likely it is that there's some rampant dilemma of this nature. I never denied that it happens at all, merely questioned the frequency with which it occurs. You may dismiss frequency as irrelevant, but nothing could be further from the truth. Virtually all problems and problem solving need to consider the frequency with which a problem occurs to help determine what is an appropriate response. In this case, the proposed solution is to institute some sort of minimum ilvl requirement for dungeons, even though there's already a level requirement and despite the fact that ARR leveling dungeons had no need for such things. In implementing this for what is essentially a rare problem at best, you'll inconvenience people who might slip in under any suggested minimum now without burdening their group, as these dungeons are quite easy and gear isn't particularly important. As I've said several times now, you have the tools you need to handle the problem if you encounter it already. There's absolutely no need for further restrictions simply because you'd rather whine than solve the problem

SE changed the Queue system to give a penalty if someone misses a queue. I really doubt there was more queue trolling then this issue now. It should be changed, no one should be allowed in 60+ content from gear they found in sashsha while having crafting gear on for other slots.

It does not matter how frequent it happens, it should NOT BE ALLOWED IN THE FIRST PLACE! Stop enabling people to be lazy and play in inappropriate gear and have more stressful time on healers. Did you ever think just maybe you are simply NOT NOTICING it?

Where does "hand me gear or i am going to play gimp" mentality even come from? This would not last a day in old FFXI. Why does a game need give people EVERYTHING to advance in MSQ?!?!?!?!!? Why can't people put some effort into gear and learning their class????

[Nixxe]

SE changed the Queue system to give a penalty if someone misses a queue. I really doubt there was more queue trolling then this issue now. It should be changed, no one should be allowed in 60+ content from gear they found in sashsha while having crafting gear on for other slots.

It does not matter how frequent it happens, it should NOT BE ALLOWED IN THE FIRST PLACE!

I doubt that was implemented in response to "queue trolling." More likely it was just meant to keep people from AFKing and forgetting about their queues or from queuing for things they aren't sure they want to do, which is a fairly common problem even with the penalty in place.

Again though, you have the tools to deal with the problem already, so do so.

[Ama_Hamada]

I doubt that was implemented in response to "queue trolling." More likely it was just meant to keep people from AFKing and forgetting about their queues or from queuing for things they aren't sure they want to do, which is a fairly common problem even with the penalty in place.

Again though, you have the tools to deal with the problem already, so do so.

You missed the point of what i was saying, therefor I do not know how to respond to this post.

[Nixxe]

You missed the point of what i was saying, therefor I do not know how to respond to this post.

I don't think you have much of a point to begin with. Let's look at the edit in your last post. You say that perhaps I'm just not noticing all these undergeared people who are supposedly weighing down the group. OK, I suppose that's fair, but if that's the case, then it would just torpedo your own argument as 1) it's obviously not stopping me from completing the dungeon and 2) isn't stressing me–the healer–out, which according to you is the problem. As I said in your previous thread, I'm probably mediocre at best, so if it's not a problem for mediocre me, why is it a problem for good players, who look down their nose at the riffraff who dare burden them in duty finder? You then go on to rabble rabble lazy rabble rabble effort rabble rabble, which is to say the generic tripe spewed by people who think they're mod's gift to the game, people who in my experience all too often lack even the slightest semblance of awareness as to their own impact on people around them. Why do we even assume these players are lazy? It's a video game. People play it for enjoyment. They may not have the same priorities or skill or whatever and that's OK. No need to denigrate them or assume ill of them just because your random group isn't the super group that you obviously deserve. Random groups are, well, random and as such it would be silly to expect everything to be exactly how you want it to be. If that's what you want, then make your own groups, and you can control exactly who gets in and what they're allowed to do. In the mean time, I'm sorry if someone queues with gear you don't like, but if they can't do their job, that's what the kick function is for. You'll live even if you lose 15 seconds of your day waiting for a replacement.

[Ama_Hamada]

I don't think you have much of a point to begin with. Let's look at the edit in your last post. You say that perhaps I'm just not noticing all these undergeared people who are supposedly weighing down the group. OK, I suppose that's fair, but if that's the case, then it would just torpedo your own argument as 1) it's obviously not stopping me from completing the dungeon and

Also since so many people are stuck on "you cleared and didn't wipe" I will provide more information that I had thought wasn't necessary because I didn't see how someone could possibly defend using a level 50 i110 weapon in level 60 content no matter if we "cleared" or not. Whether we cleared or not I have no issue with. My issue is finding this loophole in the DF system where someone can use a weapon extremely inappropriate for the duty.

That is all I am going to say, give me more respect and I will start doing the same. You are enabling people to be lazy for no reason, it is disrespectful to anyone that has to clear a DF with them. There is no holes with what I said.

If that is really your stance then you should be proposing ALL DFS to be able cleared nakkied since putting effort into gearing is too hard and "not fun"

[Nixxe]

That is all I am going to say, give me more respect and I will start doing the same. You are enabling people to be lazy for no reason, it is disrespectful to anyone that has to clear a DF with them. There is no holes with what I said.

If that is really your stance then you should be proposing ALL DFS to be able cleared nakkied since putting effort into gearing is too hard and "not fun"

This is an absurd notion of respect that crosses the line into entitlement. I'm being amicable towards you. To suggest I am being disrespectful to you simply because I disagree with you and simply because I don't think other players exist to do whatever I want is utterly insane. I obviously made a mistake by replying to you again. I will not repeat that mistake.