PLEASE do NOT allow level skipping in 4.0

[Kaedan]

. In FFXIV, it's more just distasteful. I don't like the idea of having a pay-money-to-win button. But I don't think it's going to do much to worsen the skills of an already-weak pool of players at level cap.

There's nothing "Pay to Win" about a leveling potion. Pay to Win requires that the advantage gained by spending money cannot be gained without spending money. You don't need to spend money to level a job, and as you yourself point out, it's very easy and doesn't take a lot of time investment. Thus, not in any way P2W.

[Vhailor]

Pay to Win requires that the advantage gained by spending money cannot be gained without spending money.

Uhhh... your definition would allow SE to sell any item in the game at cost, while maintaining that FFXIV isn't P2W. After all, it's not like you can't get BiS gear without spending money!

The vastly more accepted definition for P2W is selling services for money that render an advantage in-game over someone who didn't spend money. A level boost definitely qualifies there. It's not a SIGNIFICANT advantage, but it's an advantage nonetheless. I maintain my statement is an accurate assessment of a leveling potion.

[Blackbird1]

your too late pork chop our god yoshi p has Decreed that jump potions are in come 4.0-4.1 with different types now these talks can be put to rest no one can question yoshi p's will now Muwahahahaha!!!! minority lost majority wins they gotta look at the bigger picture new players aren't going to be able to enjoy playing with friends if they are 6 years behind in content if they wanna see the story then they can make an alt and level the normal way many mmo's have added this at one point or another same with those yet to do it gotta stay with the times.

[Kaedan]

Uhhh... your definition would allow SE to sell any item in the game at cost, while maintaining that FFXIV isn't P2W. After all, it's not like you can't get BiS gear without spending money!

Umm... yeah. SE can sell any item in the game for real money if they want. As long as there is a way to obtain it by simply playing the game and not having to buy it, then it's not P2W. The sole exception being that if the time required to acquire it without real money is irrationally or ridiculously long, disproportionate to the cost.

The vastly more accepted definition for P2W is selling services for money that render an advantage in-game over someone who didn't spend money. A level boost definitely qualifies there. It's not a SIGNIFICANT advantage, but it's an advantage nonetheless. I maintain my statement is an accurate assessment of a leveling potion.

No, it is not. That is the objectively false, irrational definition used by people who try to claim that any sort of cash shop at all is P2W. Flipping your own statement around on you, by your incorrect definition, anything sold in the cash shop at all is P2W. Having a style someone else doesn't or a mount or dye someone else doesn't is an advantage.

P2W requires that whatever you're buying is an advantage that can only be obtained by spending real money. Mean you have to PAY to get the advantage. Again, the exception being if the acquisition time is highly disproportionate to the real money cost.

[Vhailor]

your too late pork chop our god yoshi p has Decreed that jump potions are in come 4.0-4.1 with different types now these talks can be put to rest no one can question yoshi p's will now Muwahahahaha!!!! minority lost majority wins they gotta look at the bigger picture new players aren't going to be able to enjoy playing with friends if they are 6 years behind in content if they wanna see the story then they can make an alt and level the normal way many mmo's have added this at one point or another same with those yet to do it gotta stay with the times.

A perfect example of how appealing to the masses has shredded the quality of MMOs over the past 10 years or so.

Umm... yeah. SE can sell any item in the game for real money if they want. As long as there is a way to obtain it by simply playing the game and not having to buy it, then it's not P2W. The sole exception being that if the time required to acquire it without real money is irrationally or ridiculously long, disproportionate to the cost.

No, it is not. That is the objectively false, irrational definition used by people who try to claim that any sort of cash shop at all is P2W. Flipping your own statement around on you, by your incorrect definition, anything sold in the cash shop at all is P2W. Having a style someone else doesn't or a mount or dye someone else doesn't is an advantage.

P2W requires that whatever you're buying is an advantage that can only be obtained by spending real money. Mean you have to PAY to get the advantage. Again, the exception being if the acquisition time is highly disproportionate to the real money cost.

Feel free to cling to your definition if you wish. I have no interest in arguing with you about it. You are, however, incorrect. You actually tripped over your own feet a bit claiming that my definition is used by people arguing against any sort of cash shop. What it's used for - successfully, I might add - is convincing game companies like Square Enix that cash shops should be limited to things like mounts, minions, Fantasia potions, and... oh, yeah, exactly what they've limited the Mog Station to for quite some time now. Leveling potions enter into a bit more of a grey area, but it's a light grey. It's very marginal P2W, and they can argue that it's beneficial for newer players or experienced players wanting to level a second job who don't need to learn how to play.

About all your ranting has accomplished is conveying the distinct impression that you enjoy partaking of small P2W advantages, and feel insecure about it in the court of public opinion. Usually the people who freak out the loudest about reasonable statements like mine are those who are a bit insecure about their own behaviour.

[Oscura]

This game doesn't even teach new players what a rotation or an opener is, let alone how to play their class. I don't think a leveling potion will change anything at all. People who want to learn will learn, they don't need to be hand-held through leveling to see how their skills work. Certainly doesn't help those who do need it, anyway.

[Kaedan]

Feel free to cling to your definition if you wish.

This statement applies more to you than to me.

I have no interest in arguing with you about it.

Then why did you continue after this sentence to not only make a poor argument, but personally attack me? Again, by your definition, everything in the cash shop, including the minions, mounts, dyes etc are all P2W because they are advantages that you can acquire by spending money.

Regardless of your posturing, it doesn't change the fact you're objectively wrong. P2W requires that the items being purchased can only be acquired by spending money or the grind (acquisition time) is ridiculously long to the point of being disproportionate.

Any other incorrect definition (of which yours is usually the only one attempted to claim) is illogical because it would make anything that can be bought with real money "P2W".

[Blackbird1]

A perfect example of how appealing to the masses has shredded the quality of MMOs over the past 10 years or so.

then quit playing mmo's if your that butt hurt over it simple as that. click uninstall delete account end subscription. It's time to embrace the times and move on or you could play runecape i dont think they have jump potions yet

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Uhhh... your definition would allow SE to sell any item in the game at cost, while maintaining that FFXIV isn't P2W. After all, it's not like you can't get BiS gear without spending money!

The vastly more accepted definition for P2W is selling services for money that render an advantage in-game over someone who didn't spend money. A level boost definitely qualifies there. It's not a SIGNIFICANT advantage, but it's an advantage nonetheless. I maintain my statement is an accurate assessment of a leveling potion.

No more than retainer space. A person cannot "win" just by fast tracking their leveling in themepark MMOs because it does nothing to prepare them for the actual endgame. P2W would be Square putting Shire gear on the Mog Station knowing full well raiders might bite the bullet in lieu of waiting several weeks. That directly helps them clear the actual endgame content. Being jumped to level 60 accomplishes nothing except skipping a story they were already going to spam esc through anyway. Square is essentially taking an advance on their sub-- allowing those who which to skip to do so but not losing money on the fact they won't being progressing through old content for a month or longer.

[347SPECTRE]

Here's a bit of an idea. Have a requirement of at least one job at 60 in order for any sort of jump potion to be used. I for one welcome the idea of it, at least for me leveling alt classes is a chore and I always end up going back to my max level job rather than try to level another job. For me at least, the level grind from 1-50 feels painfully, mind-numbingly slow, and the ability to at least skip that I would wholeheartedly welcome. As for learning to play the class, I really never got that from leveling, it was more looking it up after the fact rather than while leveling, would be nice if job quests were a bit more comprehensive in teaching each class. Anywho just my two cents.