@Naoki Yoshida-> Make Samurai a Tank class!

[Celef]

I don't understand why we have to justify SAM being a tank. Why would dps players be entitled to it ? Because there are no sword-wielding dps ? That's it ?

Nothing to do with that, just wondering what new could be done for a tank gameplay. I fact, I don't care about it being tank or dps, I play heal, just curious abour what kind of new tank it could be considering we already have the tradi pal, the HP monster and the leech wich aur the only 3 "types" of tank I know so far

[Walfan]

Nothing to do with that, just wondering what new could be done for a tank gameplay. I fact, I don't care about it being tank or dps, I play heal, just curious abour what kind of new tank it could be considering we already have the tradi pal, the HP monster and the leech wich aur the only 3 "types" of tank I know so far

Dodge tank, counter tank, support tank (more fitting for PLD to go forward though), debuffing/debilitating tank, etc.

[EdwinLi]

Dodge tank, counter tank, support tank (more fitting for PLD to go forward though), debuffing/debilitating tank, etc.

I can see a type of debuff tank and magic barrier type tank but dodge and counter tank is a bit iffy if we look at current content of FF14.

For starters there is a lot of anti-dodge mechanics being introduced now which can become a issue for tanks that focus on dodge and their main mechanic does not work because certain attacks are unavoidable. Then they have to consider how the dodge system will reduce damage and by what means as a 100% reduce damage based on RNG is only OP by the rate it happens and if a player is unlock no matter how high or low the rate is then that tank would end up dying faster than a Warrior, Paladin, and Dark knight.

As for Counter attack it comes down to how the damage is reflected and how much damage taken is reduced. They can't implament a 100% damage reduction unless the cooldown is high enough to prevent repeated use within a very short timeframe nor let it be based on RNG for succcess because then the Tank's ability to handle reducing damage is based on luck and not the player themselves. Then there is also the issue of certain attacks that ignore things like counter, block, and parry that can only be reduced by damage mitigation skills. Damage reflected, ideally, may be based more on the player's damage rate instead of how much damage taken since bosses now cause damage higher than what player characters can cause themselves in one attack.

Counter and dodge tanks are a very double edge sword type of Tank Jobs that can either make or break the Jobs. However, that is just my opinion on how risking these tank jobs can be in both designing and gameplay.

[Walfan]

I can see a type of debuff tank and magic barrier type tank but dodge and counter tank is a bit iffy if we look at current content of FF14.

I agree a dodge tank tank would be difficult but not impossible. Something like a guaranteed dodge spell could be interesting but would thread thinly on the line to a possible exploit.

Counter tank is actually far more fitting to SAM and far more interesting.
The job could be completely balanced around it, with something like two core moves : counter physical and counter magical on a low cooldown. SAM could be a less durable tank originally than the others who rewards quick thinking with a very active mitigation. A successful counter could reduce the damage of the attack by 30-50% and increase both the enmity and damage of your damaging moves.
Only issue is that he wouldn't really be good as an off-tank, further competing with DRK/PLD, but that can easily be resolved by making DRK a more desirable off-tank in the first place.

Honestly there's plenty they can come up with, a dps SAM wouldn't be any more original.

[Shippuu]

A successful counter could reduce the damage of the attack by 30-50% and increase both the enmity and damage of your damaging moves.

The key to making a counter based tank without the same pitfalls DRK suffers is to make sure not to tie offensive capabilities to their counterattacks. Have an active counterattack like you mention, but build the ability in a way such as this:

Enter a counterattack stance for 4 seconds, at the end of 4 seconds (or if struck with an attack before then) you release an attack for X amount of damage. Being attacked during this stance mitigates the damage by Y%. (Or perhaps provides a defensive buff for X amount of seconds if you take a hit etc.)

This way, they still do the damage or even enemy debuffing element even if they are OT'ing, but when main tanking there is additional reason to use the abilities as appropriately defensive things. This would avoid the issue DRK has where they lose damage and a strong debuff if they aren't actively tanking things.

[ReplicaX]

snip

I agree to a point. However, still can't see it as a counter tank as far as appeal. Seems like a waste for SAM as a job imo.

This why I feel Red Mage is needed and more appealing as a Tank.
A magical Tank stands out compared to the current jobs in the role.

There are many possible directions they can take with it. Offense/Defense Magics (Hybrid of the current stance dancing), Debuffing.

Instead of just a traditional sword or rapier. They could use a "catalyst/device" to produce an aetheric weapon, which can have different enchantments depending on the situation.

[Shippuu]

This why I feel Red Mage is needed and more appealing as a Tank.
A magical Tank stands out compared to the current jobs in the role.

How does a magical tank stand out more? 2 of the 3 tanks we have are magic users. Paladin had numerous magical abilities including ones with actual cast bars even And half of Dark Knights abilities are magical themed in nature and appearance, on top of their major mechanic being managing an MP pool far more than any magic caster has to in the game.

To say a magic themed tank would be a breath of fresh air is just blatantly false.

[ReplicaX]

To say a magic themed tank would be a breath of fresh air is just blatantly false.

What does PLD bring to the table with offensive magic? Sword Oath? Just because it uses MP? Flash? No dmg and not its purpose.

While DRK is primarily MP based abilities and its major mechanic managing that mp. Other than a few unaspected dmg actions, what does it offer magically on the offense? You can tear me apart breaking it all down but...

Both PLD and DRK's major GCD actions are Physical Attacks with their weapon.

RedMage has a history of chainspelling its magic. Whether debuff, defensive or offensive.

We have no GCD Magic Casting Tank. Which is different and unique.

[Tint]

We have no GCD Magic Casting Tank. Which is different and unique.

different and unique, yeah, but a caster tank will never compete with the other tanks we have, so he will be dead on arrival.

yet alone how many aoes are targeted towards the tank. you have to dodge them and then reposition to not spin the boss around, while you can't cast any attacks at all. big trash pulls with aoe spamming mobs? i don't think you will be able to hold enmity with all that dodging. add spawns? i bet the healers will be thankfull that you need 2,5 seconds longer than any other tank to grab them... chainpulling big groups could also be a problem...

even if we don't have a caster tank, we have 2 tanks (out of only 3) with magic, i want a pure physical tank next. and that's exactly what a samurai tank with a 2 hander can offer: swordfighting without any magic stuff. i find it btw odd that DRK has such a huge sword but can't aoe with it. all his aoe attacks are magic based...

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

How does a magical tank stand out more? 2 of the 3 tanks we have are magic users. Paladin had numerous magical abilities including ones with actual cast bars even.

This is unequivocally false. PLD only has two spells, and only one of them has a cast bar, those being Flash and Clemency respectively. DRK is also only a magic tank in that they have three spells, 4 if you include Dark Passenger. Neither of these tanks incorporate magic in their single target damage dealing, and DA isn't magic, but the Abyss. As of now, there's no tanks that incorporate magic and weapon play into their core play style, which optimal usage would involve using both offensive and defensive magics and balancing aggressive weapon play. Red Mage fits as a magic tank. DRK is more accurately described as an antimage tank.