Forcing NA Duty Finder to be better, we need a grading system.

[Snugglebutt]

So instead of having every type of player play with each other, we're going to separate them into groups rather than help players who want to improve clueless about their performance.

The OP's proposal is to impose a ranking/grading system which will relegate those players who do not achieve as high a rank as himself into lower ranked groups in an effort to exclude/segregate and further distance himself from them within DF even though we already have such segregation via PF. The proposed grading system will cause longer queues and lower the quantity of higher skilled players for which the lower ones can learn from. Do you even know what 'segregation' means?

Why is it necessary to segregate players in a game, this isn't a competitive sport it's a game people play. If you have a problem with the performance of people in Duty Finder, use PF, make a premade from your elite group and enjoy yourself. Rather than separating players with divisive systems, we should be bringing players together and assisting each other and coaching players who want to improve with positive and inclusive messages instead of critical, negative and divisive messages/systems/behaviors.

On a side note from the threads topic of a grading system, it would be nice if all current mentors in this game held the same belief you expressed above in the quote here. If your not a mentor you should become one provided you hold true to the things you said in the above quote and stick by what said in actions and not just words. I hope you do in game as said since that is the right mentality for a mentor.

[Eldevern]

And i ask once again, what is wrong about rewarding players who work hard and give a incentive for those who don't to work harder?

Incentive is one thing but the way players really use it is a pretty different matter and that's the problem. The line is very very very thine with a grading system that will lead people to compare to each other. What does a grading mean? Competition. I pretty doubt a lot of people come in a MMORPG for some kind of competition. That's not my case, I pretty don't care with competition.

I'm crearly against any kind of grading system. In PVP, I can understand, for the PVE that's not the purpose of the game content. It is team work but absolutly not a comparison of players or teams. Even Yoshida has said that after the world first clear of Coil. Why? He's not against world first and such comparison but he don't want to encourage use of a parser. Because that's not the world of FF, the concept of FF.

Personal statistics, why not, but no grading. You will just lead all players who not only don't care but don't come either in a FF for any kind of competition to leave the game. How could you give any kind of guarantee that the grading system will not lead to some kind of segregation? It will only makes things worse between people who will ask even harder content and those players who play for RP, for fun, as entertainment or leisure and don't care, even are not interested, in competition.

You use these words yourself : work harder. But it is NOT the aim and the purpose of an entertainment as FF is. It is a game.

In fine, all topics about skills of players make me think about one thing. SE should have offer the possibility to get private servers licences, for those who only think in term of comparison and competition.

Not all players are in need of adrenaline.

[mp-please]

Why is it necessary to segregate players in a game, this isn't a competitive sport it's a game people play. If you have a problem with the performance of people in Duty Finder, use PF, make a premade from your elite group and enjoy yourself. Rather than separating players with divisive systems, we should be bringing players together and assisting each other and coaching players who want to improve with positive and inclusive messages instead of critical, negative and divisive messages/systems/behaviors.

With that you're separating DF users from PF users and making DF users completely unaware of their performance since they won't have anyone to compare.

Also "you" "you" "you" "you" "you", this isn't about me or any other player who plays better than the average, is about the players themselves who see themselves unable to clear content once SE decides to implement new and harder content.

The content should be a stepping stone to endgame raiding with the 1st step being dungeons then 24 man and hard trials, then extremes and finally savage, except dungeons are made easy so players can practice and improve their skills. But how do we encourage players to improve or even to do their proper rotation?
A duty clear rating would be a good bandaid on the problem though personally i would rather a gradual increase of the overall difficulty with proper heal, tank and dps checks rather than the borefest we have for dailies of damage sponges an a occasional aoe.
Look at WCoM for example, hard as hell on the 1st week but it gradually got easier as players learned the mechanics, we need that sort of difficulty in dungeons that slowly encourages players to improve with harder mechanics.

[mp-please]

The OP's proposal is to impose a ranking/grading system which will relegate those players who do not achieve as high a rank as himself into lower ranked groups in an effort to exclude/segregate and further distance himself from them within DF even though we already have such segregation via PF. The proposed grading system will cause longer queues and lower the quantity of higher skilled players for which the lower ones can learn from. Do you even know what 'segregation' means

That i do not support, you can even see on the OP my example with vindictus rating system who gives the players a rating that works for nothing other than exp boosts, gold boosts and for a performance check. We even already have a similar system in game, with red and blue scrips rewarding those who craft above the required minimum collection with extra exp and scrips.

[Kosmos992k]

With that you're separating DF users from PF users and making DF users completely unaware of their performance since they won't have anyone to compare.

What utter nonsense. PF and DF exist for completely different reasons. DF exists to allow people to party with others so that anyone can get a party. Segregating DF into bands by ability goes against the basic purpose of Durty Finder. If you cannot see that, there is little point continuing the discussion.

Party Finder exists for the purpose you appear to wish to impose on DF. You can be more discriminating in your selection of party members because you are making a premade rather than accepting the random players assigned by DF.

A 'duty clear rating' system is divisive and completely unnecessary.

On a side note from the threads topic of a grading system, it would be nice if all current mentors in this game held the same belief you expressed above in the quote here. If your not a mentor you should become one provided you hold true to the things you said in the above quote and stick by what said in actions and not just words. I hope you do in game do as said since that is the right mentality for a mentor.

I try very hard to keep to beliefs I expressed. I cannot become a mentor, as my levels* will not allow it. I enjoy helping others, it's one of the things I like most about MMORPGs. I can't say I'm perfect, of course, but I try very hard to stick to the principles and beliefs I express.

I think that is true for everyone of course. We all have bad hair days, but as long as we keep trying and acknowledge our own failings, we can make things better.

(*) my progress has been stalled for about 18 months. I play with my wife and son, and we progress through the story together. My wife's health has been such that she cannot play, and so rather than leaving her behind, I have focused on alt jobs/classes while I wait for her to be able to play again. As a result, my levels will not allow me to be a mentor at this time.

[mp-please]

Segregating DF into bands by ability goes against the basic purpose of Durty Finder. If you cannot see that, there is little point continuing the discussion.

Yes, definitely there is some misunderstanding going on. I don't support a system that would separate DF players at all, that would make queues take a eternity too. Hope that's clear.

What i support is a duty performance rating, you can see in the OP post my example with vindictus that has a dps, heal, etc report on how the player performed and is given a boost in exp, gold and some other stuff (for xiv could be tomestones) that works as a incentive for players to play better rather than doing the minimal possible through daily content. There could be a achievement as well on how many times you get a S rating for a mount or something like it already exists for commendations to prevent players from stopping playing properly once they lose interest in the extra rewards.

[Kosmos992k]

Yes, definitely there is some misunderstanding going on. I don't support a system that would separate DF players at all, that would make queues take a eternity too. Hope that's clear.

What i support is a duty performance rating, you can see in the OP post my example with vindictus that has a dps, heal, etc report on how the player performed and is given a boost in exp, gold and some other stuff (for xiv could be tomestones) that works as a incentive for players to play better rather than doing the minimal possible through daily content. There could be a achievement as well on how many times you get a S rating for a mount or something like it already exists for commendations to prevent players from stopping playing properly once they lose interest in the extra rewards.

So, you think that by giving players who are already more skilled than others more rewards, you will somehow incentivize others to do better? I understand that, however the problem is not the incentive, it's the way the community reacts to each other. Giving more loot to those at the top of the skill tree will simply accelerate the rate at which that part of the community moves away from the rest. that will in all practical senses cause further division and segregation of players.

[mp-please]

So, you think that by giving players who are already more skilled than others more rewards, you will somehow incentivize others to do better? I understand that, however the problem is not the incentive, it's the way the community reacts to each other. Giving more loot to those at the top of the skill tree will simply accelerate the rate at which that part of the community moves away from the rest. that will in all practical senses cause further division and segregation of players.

Don't really see why. We can see on how the achievement system in games was so successful since people will always attempt to beat themselves be on single player games or multiplayer ones, adding such a system would only add barriers for players to break themselves, not to break between each other. And ratings being private to each player, there is no way any others would know how well/badly you did.

[Snugglebutt]

You have to be careful with incentives and rewards, this game already has a large gap between the casual player and the hardcore in terms of potential gains/rewards.

Imposing additional rewards on every single piece of content run through DF (including casual/lower level content) will serve to breed more contempt and resentment between the have and have not's, the hardcore and the casual. Even if you have good intentions and you see it as an incentive...others will see it as a punishment and no-one likes to be punished but not everyone can or would be able to achieve the highest rank whether for medical reasons, age/maturity or despite trying their best they simply cannot do as well as others.

It is even worse if they are being singled out and harassed because their score/rating or performance is made known to others in the group which is same reason why SE does not officially support party wide parsing. It will cause more division and more segregation, more conflict and resentment made worse by the OP's suggestion of actually punishing people by forcing them into lower ranked groups from which has less good quality players to learn from while at same time forcing their queue times to be longer. SE needs to be very careful in how much they reward the top tier players when the hardcore members of this community are a small fraction of the player base.

[Eldevern]

Don't really see why.

In fact, it is because without even realizing it, you think through a competitive spirit. What sounds natural for you is not necessary the same for others. People who don't care about competition will continue to not care. And what Kosmos992k describes will just naturally happen.

Through the weekly rewards note or the NPC for achievments, or personnal statistics, maybe there is a possibility, but still, the line is thine and I hardly imagine SE going that way.