Forcing NA Duty Finder to be better, we need a grading system.

[mp-please]

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Humans are competitive by nature, sports, school, work. We all compete against each other everyday in a way or another, people just need to see it as a healthy competition to increase the value of everyone rather than see it in a way to shun each and everyone. After all we're competing against the AI and mechanics SE devs set up for us.
Look at europe for example, due to years of a passive economy thanks to the free market the competitive went down and it screwed the whole EU as a whole. In a game basis, imagine if there was no competitivity on the market board, everything would still cost millions to buy rather than slowly dipping as the crafting material supply rises and demand drops.

Not every single competition is a player insulting the other, mainly when everyone on this game needs to be on the same level to tackle harder content.

[Eldevern]

...

Thanks you, you've just summarized what I said previously. You just cannot think another way and hardly deal with the fact not all people think that way. Do you imagine all people at school try to be the first? Some people just let themselves live and don't care about competition...

To build is pretty different to compete. Some people just try to build the way they like but don't care to be the first or the last since they just realize what they want.

Consider someone who play an instrument or draw for himself, at home, he pretty can never take part in any kind of competition, just enjoying playing for himself, like that, or for his friends but do not care to compete or to be known.

[mp-please]

Consider someone who play an instrument or draw for himself, at home, he pretty can never take part in any kind of competition, just enjoying playing for himself, like that, or for his friends but do not care to compete or to be known.

I'm a artist for hobbie but i don't explore that area like a lot of people do with commissions and such. But at the same time i'm always eager to improve myself to be able to draw better and better as drawing the same over and over again gets extremely boring and repetitive with time. You don't need to compete with others to improve yourself, it's even fun to to beat your own records.

[Ryel]

Thanks you, you've just summarized what I said previously. You just cannot think another way and hardly deal with the fact not all people think that way. Do you imagine all people at school try to be the first? Some people just let themselves live and don't care about competition...

A school grades you whether you're top of the class or not, you still have to perform to an academic standard or you fail.

To build is pretty different to compete. Some people just try to build the way they like but don't care to be the first or the last since they just realize what they want.

Consider someone who play an instrument or draw for himself, at home, he pretty can never take part in any kind of competition, just enjoying playing for himself, like that, or for his friends but do not care to compete or to be known.

Both drawing and performing music can be held to actual standards, for example in the case of drawing you can look for things like anatomical correctness, perspective, color balance, use of space etc things that we actually critique art for. However as long as these remain solo activities that nobody else sees then nobody actually cares what you sound like when you play or what your pictures look like when you draw as they're done purely for personal enjoyment.

Granted if you want to improve in those things you might compare your work to others or yourself which is a minor form of competition.

Content in the Duty Finder is not a solo activity, and I don't say this to be rude but it matters very little what the individual thinks when they willingly step into a team situation with a defined goal or set of tasks that need to be completed.

The bar might be set extremely low for the majority of content but it still exists to a degree.

While i may not agree with a separate queue for low grades or the like, I do feel one of the major areas that needs help in this game is performance feedback for the players. Anyone who has actually seen what that currently looks like first hand could probably tell you what the skill level of the general populace looks like at the moment, anyone who hasn't needs look no further than the design and effects it's had on content since release.

The game is severely lacking in adversity and healthy competition, it doesn't need to be extreme but if you do not give reasons for players to push and then tell them when they aren't pushing many wont bother to try because they can get by otherwise.

systems like Guildhests, Hall of the Novice, and Stone Sky Sea really should have been made mandatory to help players on their way up, they sadly weren't however.

[Eldevern]

You really don't get it... I guess we can't change the way we think as fast as a wink. I understand your perspective but you don't get mine at all. Never mind. Just let's stop here.

@raelgun

You don't get it either.

[raelgun]

You really don't get it... I guess we can't change to way we think as fast as a wink. I understand your perspective but you don't get mine at all. Never mind. Just let's stop here.

Drawing stuff on your own and for your own eyes, do what you want, when you need to present said work to other people or work for other people, you need standards, when you enter a dungeon, you are not on your own and with other people. When you enter in a team, you need to think about others and not just your self, you are being selfish, no one likes selfish players.

[Raim]

I dont want to break people into brackets based on performance since that will artificially extend queue times, but I am all for a display that indicates how well you and other members did after you leave the dungeon/raid since the staff here probably dont want you to use it for harassment purposes.

[Brill_]

This system is not about helping people get better, it's about segregating the community so people can avoid playing with "bad" players. A bad player is not going to get better if the only people they can play with is bad players. Once you get a bad grade, there is no way to get out. If I'm a new dps that doesn't play well yet, I have poor dps, fail dps checks, wipe and get bad grade. Now I have to play with the other bad players. I go out, watch videos, read guides, practice my rotation and can now dps properly. However, I'm still stuck with the low graded players, who are still bad. So I still can't clear fights to get a better grade because the group fails.

Thats the whole problem with this system, the group can bring your grade down. There are too many fights in this game where if one person dies, the group wipes. As long as those mechanics exist, my grade is not in my control.

[Brill_]

Personally, it feels amazing if I finish an encounter and know: We wouldn't have made it if it wasn't for me. I carried this team.

This ^ The most fun I've had in dungeons is where things don't go quite right. I'm a monk and I loved the titan fights where it's just a tank, healer and myself alive in the last phase and we win. I think one reason people don't get better is because the fights are too scripted. Instead of wiping for failing a dps check because 1 dps died, I'd rather see a good group be able to still win despite mistakes that were made.

[WinterLuna]

As long as those mechanics exist, my grade is not in my control.

This is what I've been trying to say previously but you summed it up perfectly.