Black Mage Sanctuary - A Guide to DPS

[Garotte14]

Why do you say its too high, and why are your weights correct? Where are your calculations?

FYI, the i-level we're at currently can get is above 2.4 - 2.4 was i130 (with i50 being the base), whereas we're at i240 now with i150 being the base.

After how many months of you posting your stat weight, you've still failed at producing any kind of evidence, so right now it is as verified as the 0.413. I.e, none whatsoever.

I have never once stated that my stat weights are correct. I have stated multiple times on here and in the guide that stat weights are not confirmed. The stats weights I am currently using are the ones listed on Ariyala, with the exception of SS which is listed at 0.413. I also added the stat weights to my guide more to show ppl how they work, and that was added Apr 21st, so not sure where you're getting the "many months" from.

Anyways, I'm not trying to argue. Can I prove that SS is not weighed at 0.413? No, I cannot. But I've been playing BLM a long time and 0.413 is just too high. We all know the stat priority. I honestly don't care what you believe. I only want to give ppl who are looking to learn, the best advice I can give. I'm not trying to cheat anyone or mislead anyone or give false information.

[HaroldSaxon]

I have never once stated that my stat weights are correct. I have stated multiple times on here and in the guide that stat weights are not confirmed. The stats weights I am currently using are the ones listed on Ariyala, with the exception of SS which is listed at 0.413. I also added the stat weights to my guide more to show ppl how they work, and that was added Apr 21st, so not sure where you're getting the "many months" from.

Anyways, I'm not trying to argue. Can I prove that SS is not weighed at 0.413? No, I cannot. But I've been playing BLM a long time and 0.413 is just too high. We all know the stat priority. I honestly don't care what you believe. I only want to give ppl who are looking to learn, the best advice I can give. I'm not trying to cheat anyone or mislead anyone or give false information.

But you have said statements such as "As far as the necklace is concerned, a pentamelded crafted necklace is not better than the Midan necklace" - using your stat weights.

You really should not be using unconfirmed stat weights in any kind of guide or as a basis for any kind of analysis. The fact that you are touting your own "unconfirmed" stat weight which, as you say yourself are unconfirmed. The many months ago was from when you've been saying other stat weights in this thread, although I may have you confused with someone else so my apologies if that is the case.

The fact of the matter is, you've not said the method in which you've got the stat. The individual who provided the 0.413 weight has - via a simulator. Its still unconfirmed because we've not seen the math behind it, but its still better than pulling a random number out of thin air.

If you don't have a proven accurate stat weighting, state so and give example numbers and make it damn clear that its an example. And don't go and then use those numbers claiming a piece is better than another.

Regarding the 0.413 stat weight - well, at 2.5, the exact weighting at high levels of spellspeed was over 0.3 at that point. The gear we have available now (i240 compared to base i150) is better than in 2.x (i130 compared to base i50). Furthermore, we have some further added benefit of extra spellspeed:

a) Reducing the amount of time spend in Umbral Ice when using T1+B4
b) Potentially increasing the amount of spells you can get under Ley Lines - I haven't done the calculations for the normal rotation, but potentially there is a point that you can do f3, 5 x f4, B3.
c) Higher Potency rotation due to the extra potency of F4
d) More Thundercloud procs - with enough spellspeed, you can get more procs in than you would normally be able to.
e) Spellspeed scales on DoT's now.

That said, we have lost some benefits such as Fey Glow. But I can see why its potentially increased, but without hard numbers and calculations, you cannot say for sure what the number is.

[Garotte14]

But you have said statements such as "As far as the necklace is concerned, a pentamelded crafted necklace is not better than the Midan necklace" - using your stat weights.

You really should not be using unconfirmed stat weights in any kind of guide or as a basis for any kind of analysis. The fact that you are touting your own "unconfirmed" stat weight which, as you say yourself are unconfirmed. The many months ago was from when you've been saying other stat weights in this thread, although I may have you confused with someone else so my apologies if that is the case.

The fact of the matter is, you've not said the method in which you've got the stat. The individual who provided the 0.413 weight has - via a simulator. Its still unconfirmed because we've not seen the math behind it, but its still better than pulling a random number out of thin air.

If you don't have a proven accurate stat weighting, state so and give example numbers and make it damn clear that its an example. And don't go and then use those numbers claiming a piece is better than another.

Ok, so I see your point and I apologize for stating that the Midan necklace was better than the crafted necklace as a fact. It is my opinion that its better. Although, I do state several times that the stat weights are arbitrary and I have I my nose to the ground and will update as soon as numbers can be confirmed and validated. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I never care about being right or wrong. I didn't make this guide because I believe I'm the best at this. I did it to help the community and there wasn't really a guide that had all the information in one spot. And the others that have created guides are gone from the game. Plus, most guides really only spoke of endgame rotations, while negating the basics of the class and the game in general. I don't plan on going anywhere for a very long time, so I know I'll be around to continue managing the guide into the future.

Regarding the 0.413 stat weight - well, at 2.5, the exact weighting at high levels of spellspeed was over 0.3 at that point. The gear we have available now (i240 compared to base i150) is better than in 2.x (i130 compared to base i50). Furthermore, we have some further added benefit of extra spellspeed.

With that being said, the only thing I'll say to counter this statement is, if that were the case, wouldn't all the stat weights be higher? Toward the end of the expansion, all 3 secondaries hovered around 0.2 - 0.3. Yes, SS was higher than Det and Crit, but not by that much. They were all higher than 0.2. Now I know SS has changed a bit with our Enochian and AF timers being a big factor, and also that SS now affects DoTs, but Crit was also adjusted to now include damage done as well as rate. If SS was really as high as 0.413 (which it might be), I would expect Det and Crit to be in the high 0.2s, with Crit probably being in the 0.3s. Again, I'm not stating this as fact. But with my experience with the game and the class, I feel 0.413 is too high. Dervy also agrees that number is way too high. Truthfully, I've been waiting for him to level BLM and do the stat weights, because we all know he knows what he's doing.

[Lavitz_]

About that 0.413 Spell Speed stat weight...

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...dology/d35hkp3

[StouterTaru]

About that 0.413 Spell Speed stat weight...

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...dology/d35hkp3

With either the equation he used or Dervy's, the results would have come out the same. The issue is with his simulation; it's essentially a solo dummy parse, showing that 10% off cast time adds as much damage as doing 20% more damage per spell.

You'll get about 12% more damage from extra casts and that boost to thunder DoT tics, but the only thing he has giving that extra damage is Thundercloud and Firestarter procs. Something is wrong with his code.

[SunnyHirose]

But I can see why its potentially increased, but without hard numbers and calculations, you cannot say for sure what the number is.

.413 is 1.4 times the next proposed highest secondary on any other job (.295 on BRD's Critical), which is why it simply doesn't pass the smell test... at least when it comes to dummy DPS. Speaking of which, I need a BLM damage formula gimme gimme

[Cnidarian]

snip

Keep in mind, 2 separate individuals ran independent simulations that were designed independently as well and came out with similar values.

Stat Weights

A quote from that link summarizes why SS has such a high value.

"Spell Speed is absolutely bonkers for BLM. The number I've given here is technically lower than my simulations return because there are a lot of weird inflection points where small changes in spell speed give huge returns, and it so happens that the amount of speed we get with 3.2 gear puts us in one of those ranges."

The only problem with using 0.413 as a weight for SS is that that value probably only holds true past a certain threshold for SS (i.e. the minimum value to enter the inflection point described above). Below that value, SS probably has a lower weight value as your return is less for each point in SS.

[HaroldSaxon]

Ok, so I see your point and I apologize for stating that the Midan necklace was better than the crafted necklace as a fact. It is my opinion that its better. Although, I do state several times that the stat weights are arbitrary and I have I my nose to the ground and will update as soon as numbers can be confirmed and validated. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I never care about being right or wrong. I didn't make this guide because I believe I'm the best at this. I did it to help the community and there wasn't really a guide that had all the information in one spot. And the others that have created guides are gone from the game. Plus, most guides really only spoke of endgame rotations, while negating the basics of the class and the game in general. I don't plan on going anywhere for a very long time, so I know I'll be around to continue managing the guide into the future.

With that being said, the only thing I'll say to counter this statement is, if that were the case, wouldn't all the stat weights be higher? Toward the end of the expansion, all 3 secondaries hovered around 0.2 - 0.3. Yes, SS was higher than Det and Crit, but not by that much. They were all higher than 0.2. Now I know SS has changed a bit with our Enochian and AF timers being a big factor, and also that SS now affects DoTs, but Crit was also adjusted to now include damage done as well as rate. If SS was really as high as 0.413 (which it might be), I would expect Det and Crit to be in the high 0.2s, with Crit probably being in the 0.3s. Again, I'm not stating this as fact. But with my experience with the game and the class, I feel 0.413 is too high. Dervy also agrees that number is way too high. Truthfully, I've been waiting for him to level BLM and do the stat weights, because we all know he knows what he's doing.

Which is great because the game does lack guides, but when it comes to actual statistics and math, I don't like seeing people get misled - either unintentionally or intentionally.

Yes, some stat weights will be higher, although i'm probably not the right person to ask - Crit will be worth more due to the changes to crit. Det for BLM won't have as much of a gain, but with higher gear values and a higher potency rotation i'd imagine it would be worth more. I could be completely off here.

In 2.x, Spellspeed was actually considerably higher point for point than the other stats when you had BiS - to the point where a lot of the BiS pieces were crafted.

My gut says that 0.413 is a bit too high, but I don't have any math to disprove that. If I was to make a completely baseless guess, i'd imagine at BiS levels, it would be Det at 0.15-0.2, Crit at 0.25-0.3 and Spellspeed at 0.35 to 0.4.

.413 is 1.4 times the next proposed highest secondary on any other job (.295 on BRD's Critical), which is why it simply doesn't pass the smell test... at least when it comes to dummy DPS. Speaking of which, I need a BLM damage formula gimme gimme

And I've not disagreed or said that 0.413 is accurate or not accurate. We don't have the data to say that right now.

[SunnyHirose]

And I've not disagreed or said that 0.413 is accurate or not accurate. We don't have the data to say that right now.

I consider other jobs to be data. They really don't stray too far from each other. ARR BLM was kind of an exception, but now there's oGCD stoppage and stuff....

All in all, I can't actually weight BLM without a BLM damage formula for INT/DET. That's the big missing piece over on my end. The rotation and all its gotchas is a relatively minor detail in comparison (the choices you have are limited anyway; that narrows things down). For example, when I corrected a fairly major problem with melee SS weights about a year ago, the net result was only something like ~10% reduction to the weight. Yes, that counts as a major problem to me; to the gearsets you can actually construct, it is probably not.

[HaroldSaxon]

I consider other jobs to be data. They really don't stray too far from each other. ARR BLM was kind of an exception, but now there's oGCD stoppage and stuff....

All in all, I can't actually weight BLM without a BLM damage formula for INT/DET. That's the big missing piece over on my end. The rotation and all its gotchas is a relatively minor detail in comparison (the choices you have are limited anyway; that narrows things down). For example, when I corrected a fairly major problem with melee SS weights about a year ago, the net result was only something like ~10% reduction to the weight. Yes, that counts as a major problem to me; to the gearsets you can actually construct, it is probably not.

Funnily enough, this appeared on Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...n_methodology/

I've not had chance to go through it and evaluate it though. Maybe it will be useful