Black Mage Sanctuary - A Guide to DPS

[SunnyHirose]

But I can see why its potentially increased, but without hard numbers and calculations, you cannot say for sure what the number is.

.413 is 1.4 times the next proposed highest secondary on any other job (.295 on BRD's Critical), which is why it simply doesn't pass the smell test... at least when it comes to dummy DPS. Speaking of which, I need a BLM damage formula gimme gimme

[Cnidarian]

snip

Keep in mind, 2 separate individuals ran independent simulations that were designed independently as well and came out with similar values.

Stat Weights

A quote from that link summarizes why SS has such a high value.

"Spell Speed is absolutely bonkers for BLM. The number I've given here is technically lower than my simulations return because there are a lot of weird inflection points where small changes in spell speed give huge returns, and it so happens that the amount of speed we get with 3.2 gear puts us in one of those ranges."

The only problem with using 0.413 as a weight for SS is that that value probably only holds true past a certain threshold for SS (i.e. the minimum value to enter the inflection point described above). Below that value, SS probably has a lower weight value as your return is less for each point in SS.

[SunnyHirose]

I've seen that, but when they mention that "there are a lot of weird inflection points where small changes in spell speed give huge returns" and "One such round had speed's weight about half that of Weapon Damage" makes it sound like they have exactly the kind of model where you can't trust what it says about speed, because they're doing discretely that what is supposed to be treated as continuous.

[HaroldSaxon]

Ok, so I see your point and I apologize for stating that the Midan necklace was better than the crafted necklace as a fact. It is my opinion that its better. Although, I do state several times that the stat weights are arbitrary and I have I my nose to the ground and will update as soon as numbers can be confirmed and validated. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I never care about being right or wrong. I didn't make this guide because I believe I'm the best at this. I did it to help the community and there wasn't really a guide that had all the information in one spot. And the others that have created guides are gone from the game. Plus, most guides really only spoke of endgame rotations, while negating the basics of the class and the game in general. I don't plan on going anywhere for a very long time, so I know I'll be around to continue managing the guide into the future.

With that being said, the only thing I'll say to counter this statement is, if that were the case, wouldn't all the stat weights be higher? Toward the end of the expansion, all 3 secondaries hovered around 0.2 - 0.3. Yes, SS was higher than Det and Crit, but not by that much. They were all higher than 0.2. Now I know SS has changed a bit with our Enochian and AF timers being a big factor, and also that SS now affects DoTs, but Crit was also adjusted to now include damage done as well as rate. If SS was really as high as 0.413 (which it might be), I would expect Det and Crit to be in the high 0.2s, with Crit probably being in the 0.3s. Again, I'm not stating this as fact. But with my experience with the game and the class, I feel 0.413 is too high. Dervy also agrees that number is way too high. Truthfully, I've been waiting for him to level BLM and do the stat weights, because we all know he knows what he's doing.

Which is great because the game does lack guides, but when it comes to actual statistics and math, I don't like seeing people get misled - either unintentionally or intentionally.

Yes, some stat weights will be higher, although i'm probably not the right person to ask - Crit will be worth more due to the changes to crit. Det for BLM won't have as much of a gain, but with higher gear values and a higher potency rotation i'd imagine it would be worth more. I could be completely off here.

In 2.x, Spellspeed was actually considerably higher point for point than the other stats when you had BiS - to the point where a lot of the BiS pieces were crafted.

My gut says that 0.413 is a bit too high, but I don't have any math to disprove that. If I was to make a completely baseless guess, i'd imagine at BiS levels, it would be Det at 0.15-0.2, Crit at 0.25-0.3 and Spellspeed at 0.35 to 0.4.

.413 is 1.4 times the next proposed highest secondary on any other job (.295 on BRD's Critical), which is why it simply doesn't pass the smell test... at least when it comes to dummy DPS. Speaking of which, I need a BLM damage formula gimme gimme

And I've not disagreed or said that 0.413 is accurate or not accurate. We don't have the data to say that right now.

[SunnyHirose]

And I've not disagreed or said that 0.413 is accurate or not accurate. We don't have the data to say that right now.

I consider other jobs to be data. They really don't stray too far from each other. ARR BLM was kind of an exception, but now there's oGCD stoppage and stuff....

All in all, I can't actually weight BLM without a BLM damage formula for INT/DET. That's the big missing piece over on my end. The rotation and all its gotchas is a relatively minor detail in comparison (the choices you have are limited anyway; that narrows things down). For example, when I corrected a fairly major problem with melee SS weights about a year ago, the net result was only something like ~10% reduction to the weight. Yes, that counts as a major problem to me; to the gearsets you can actually construct, it is probably not.

[MagiusNecros]

Hey, I've seen some blms melding a small amount of piety on their gear. Could anyone link me back to where this may have been discussed on this thread? Just how common is this? How worth it is it? Getting that thunder out?

I've been doing some playing around and if you meld 2 Pie 5's you can get F4x2 F1 F4x3 and go to B3 no problem for the first 2 rounds of Enochian. Without Ley Lines and without Convert. Threshold for this is the number 10,960 MP. Wait for the mana tick before you go into F3. Only going to work if you start with B3. You's probably want 310 to make it happen. As a Hellsguard and the 35 bonus I sit at 318.

Just note for reference the first Enoch round you can sneak in a T1 after your B3 before B4. 2nd round is not possible I believe.

Meld 5 Pie V's and you can get yourself a 4th Fire 2 and have just enough for your Flares. By waiting for the Mana tick and going into F3 you can do F2x4 leaving you with 896 MP whereas minimum cost for Flare is 884.

And this is only if you pumped all 35 of your points into Piety as well. Which for me is 351. I only put Pie 5's into the right side slots.

That is as far as I would go though.

[Judge_Xero]

I've seen that, but when they mention that "there are a lot of weird inflection points where small changes in spell speed give huge returns" and "One such round had speed's weight about half that of Weapon Damage" makes it sound like they have exactly the kind of model where you can't trust what it says about speed, because they're doing discretely that what is supposed to be treated as continuous.

I think that is what is difficult about both BLM and BRD with the SPD stat.

BLM for instance when you reach a 5XF4 rotation would be another major jump in SPD value but only for that jump. (1674 SPD?)

Same sort of thing with BRD and Heavy Shot causing SS procs to effeciently sync into weaving BL and EA. (Both 2.0GCD and 2.25GCD are milestones for that)

[Garotte14]

I think that is what is difficult about both BLM and BRD with the SPD stat.

BLM for instance when you reach a 5XF4 rotation would be another major jump in SPD value but only for that jump. (1674 SPD?)

Same sort of thing with BRD and Heavy Shot causing SS procs to effeciently sync into weaving BL and EA. (Both 2.0GCD and 2.25GCD are milestones for that)

I highly doubt SE will allow that to happen. If they wanted us to be able just spam Fire IV, they would have made it refresh AF. When it gets to a point where our Spell Speed is high enough to cast 5 Fire IVs, I would expect a nerf to AF and bringing it back down to 10s

[HaroldSaxon]

I consider other jobs to be data. They really don't stray too far from each other. ARR BLM was kind of an exception, but now there's oGCD stoppage and stuff....

All in all, I can't actually weight BLM without a BLM damage formula for INT/DET. That's the big missing piece over on my end. The rotation and all its gotchas is a relatively minor detail in comparison (the choices you have are limited anyway; that narrows things down). For example, when I corrected a fairly major problem with melee SS weights about a year ago, the net result was only something like ~10% reduction to the weight. Yes, that counts as a major problem to me; to the gearsets you can actually construct, it is probably not.

Funnily enough, this appeared on Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...n_methodology/

I've not had chance to go through it and evaluate it though. Maybe it will be useful

[Lavitz_]

About that 0.413 Spell Speed stat weight...

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...dology/d35hkp3