This game needs better DPS feedback

[KarstenS]

Because everyone can read between the lines and see that if DPS meters were allowed, half the people in this thread would blast people because they aren't pulling optimal dps 100% of the time.

Its not about "you are not reaching 100%". Its more about the growing mass of people not even reaching the 30% mark. There should be a feedback to these players. There are many people outside that don't care about their performance because they don't know how bad they perform. I'm pretty shure there are alot of people, which would try to do better, if they would know about how far they are away from being good (not super or awesome, just good).

[Snugglebutt]

Its not about "you are not reaching 100%". Its more about the growing mass of people not even reaching the 30% mark. There should be a feedback to these players. There are many people outside that don't care about their performance because they don't know how bad they perform. I'm pretty shure there are alot of people, which would try to do better, if they would know about how far they are away from being good (not super or awesome, just good).

The primary argument is about the harassment party wide parser's can and have caused. That is a very legitimate argument and I have seen people doing such with party wide parser's many, many times in groups. Also if someone is only doing 30% then you do not need a parser to notice that in the first place. Personal parser's I am fine with, party wide one's I am against. Very few people seem to actually privately whisper/tell the player and give helpful, kind advice to them rather than resorting to shaming, belittling, insulting and harassing them in public group chat.

[RickXRolled]

The primary argument is about the harassment party wide parser's can and have caused. That is a very legitimate argument and I have seen people doing such with party wide parser's many, many times in groups. Also if someone is only doing 30% then you do not need a parser to notice that in the first place. Personal parser's I am fine with, party wide one's I am against. Very few people seem to actually privately whisper/tell the player and give helpful, kind advice to them rather than resorting to shaming, belittling, insulting and harassing them in public group chat.

It's always the underperforming players who complain on the forums that they see allot of parser abuse. I wonder why that would be? Always the underperforming players afraid of "harassment" because they are well aware they suck. They just don't want others to be able to see they suck and call them out on it. They do not want to be held accountable.

If everyone were to play well, there would be almost no elitism. Elitism exists because bad players frustrate some people to the point that they become total dicks. If bad players didn't exist, there would be overall less stress and irritation caused by things like enraging on a8n.(a simple casual fight) In other words, bad play breeds elitism.

People don't like deadweight on their team. Which is why deadweight players get kicked from groups. Then the deadweight player comes on the forums to complain about evil elitists kicking them from parties. They cannot win a fight because nobody wants them on their team, which according to them, is the true evil. They paid their 15$ after all.
These people deserve no sympathy. They have no one but themselves to blame. Instead, they blame the players that won't put up with their crap.

I've said this before and I will say this again. The truly toxic players aren't the ones who care about winning and call out people making mistakes. The toxic players are the whiny dead weight players with a large sense of entitlement and fragile feelings.

[Snugglebutt]

It's always the underperforming players who complain on the forums that they see allot of parser abuse. I wonder why that would be? Always the underperforming players afraid of "harassment" because they are well aware they suck. They just don't want others to be able to see they suck and call them out on it. They do not want to be held accountable.

If everyone were to play well, there would be almost no elitism. Elitism exists because bad players frustrate some people to the point that they become total dicks. If bad players didn't exist, there would be overall less stress and irritation caused by things like enraging on a8n.(a simple casual fight) In other words, bad play breeds elitism.

People don't like deadweight on their team. Which is why deadweight players get kicked from groups. Then the deadweight player comes on the forums to complain about evil elitists kicking them from parties. They cannot win a fight because nobody wants them on their team, which according to them, is the true evil. They paid their 15$ after all.
These people deserve no sympathy. They have no one but themselves to blame. Instead, they blame the players that won't put up with their crap.

I've said this before and I will say this again. The truly toxic players aren't the ones who care about winning and call out people making mistakes. The toxic players are the whiny dead weight players with a large sense of entitlement and fragile feelings.

You do not know whether I am a good or bad player, you have never been in a group with me so please don't assume I am bad just because I pointed out a valid argument against their use. On the flip side to your stance...if more people who use party wide parser's were not dicks then it would not be a valid argument against SE implementing an official version. Maybe if people stop being dicks so often SE might change their mind, as might I but no-one forces so many to act like a dick even if they are slightly frustrated. In the end my argument is only valid because so many act that way rather than privately and politely giving advice instead of the public shaming and insulting that often goes on by people using them. Being pissed off or frustrated is not a valid excuse for acting like a dick anymore so than it being a get out of jail free card for murdering the people you simply don't like.

[RickXRolled]

You do not know whether I am a good or bad player, you have never been in a group with me so please don't assume I am bad just because I pointed out a valid argument against their use. On the flip side to your stance...if more people who use party wide parser's were not dicks then it would not be a valid argument against SE implementing an official version. Maybe if people stop being dicks so often SE might change their mind, as might I but no-one forces so many to act like a dick even if they are slightly frustrated. In the end my argument is only valid because so many act that way rather than privately and politely giving advice instead of the public shaming and insulting that often goes on by people using them. Being pissed off or frustrated is not a valid excuse for acting like a dick anymore so than it being a get out of jail free card for murdering the people you simply don't like.

There is more people parsing then you think. Those people don't mention it most of the time so you don't even know. The only way for you to know people are parsing is when they mention it and insult someone. This gives you confirmation bias that parser user=dick. Only a fraction of people with parsers actually say/do anything towards other players. This parser "harassment" you speak of is almost non-existent. There is more harassment happening without parsers being involved. I also consider dead weight crybully victims joining parties a serious form of harassment.

[_slowpoke_]

harassment party wide parser's can and have caused.

Parsers do not cause harassment, they are tools. That's 100% bullshit. Harassers cause harassment, and guess what, it's already a reportable offence. Stop using harassment as an argument against parsers, you are abusing a legitimate and important issue for a disingenuous and invalid argument. Harassment is a very serious problem and I am quite frankly extremely pissed that people like you continue to exploit it for your bullshit. If you would actually care about harassment, you would demand that the already existing anti-harassment policies be better enforced and improved, and not whine about an extremely useful tool that has literally no causal connection to the issue. Stop.

[Snugglebutt]

Parsers do not cause harassment, they are tools. That's 100% bullshit. Harassers cause harassment, and guess what, it's already a reportable offence. Stop using harassment as an argument against parsers, you are abusing a legitimate and important issue for a disingenuous and invalid argument. Harassment is a very serious problem and I am quite frankly extremely pissed that people like you continue to exploit it for your bullshit. If you would actually care about harassment, you would demand that the already existing anti-harassment policies be better enforced and improved, and not whine about an extremely useful tool that has literally no causal connection to the issue. Stop.

How ironic that you accuse me of abusing an argument/position regarding the abuse of the tool in question. A tool which is being used as a method by a lot of people who are more than willing to use against others to publicly shame and harass them.

Does this mean everyone misuses it? No, but a lot of people do and it is partially because of that which SE does not officially support it and is the same reason I do not. The argument I made was valid whether you like it or not. I actually like the idea of personal parser's but I do not like party wide ones because of the abuse I have seen frequently by those who use them. Am I biased in that I can only speak about what I have seen? Yes in the same way others might be biased in the other direction if they haven't seen it happen as much. Can I claim the majority of people abuse it? No, but I can without a doubt say a lot of people do because I have seen a lot of people doing so. Is it a useful and good tool in the right hands? Sure but in my experience it is quite often not used by people the right way.

It is a loaded gun which quite a lot of people are more than willing to fire at another to cause grief or because they lack emotional self control to use it maturely, instead of sticking to polite and private one to one conversations they resort to insults and public shaming in group chat, party wide parser's being the tool they use to do pick their target for their anger and hate. Maybe if less people misused it then myself and SE would have a different policy or stance about it.

Have you considered that this type of harassment is only possible BECAUSE not everyone has access to a parser? I mean if they implemented an in-game parser, that we could all see, as soon as someone calls someone out for low dps (which I do think would happen), everyone can the instantly see if it's justified or not. Either the person being called out IS playing very poorly, in which case they deserve to be called out, or they aren't, and whoever's shouting can be told to STFU.

At the moment, half of us are completely in the dark, someone calls someone else out, none of us know if it's valid or not. I genuinely don't get how more clarity can be deemed to be a bad thing, other than by people who actively want to get carried through content putting in no effort, or are just inherently bad and know a parser would expose them

I have considered that yes. If everyone used it I believe personally it would merely increase the amount of people insulting and being abusive towards others. As shown in here already some people really can't seem to keep their emotions in check and it would be like giving everyone a loaded gun which would increase the amount of people shot. I cannot prove that would happen, it is just a guess but one that makes perfect sense to me.

The thing is even if they are talking to the right person and the person was doing badly...there is still a right way and wrong way to discuss it with them. There is no simple solution since everyone using one could potentially increase the amount of abuse that goes on, personal parser's won't please those who also want party wide ones, people won't all act maturely or more responsibly with it and no matter how strict SE's policies may get on abuse it won't stop some people who lack self control from using it in a bad way...but I cannot see how anyone can pretend that it is not being misused, it is that misuse is a valid reason as to why SE does not officially support.

[Krissey]

How ironic that you accuse me of abusing an argument/position regarding the abuse of the tool in question.

Can you point to me where the irony here is? Is the irony that people are abusing the anti-harassment policies? Can you prove it? What's ironic here?

[Kaurie]

How ironic that you accuse me of abusing an argument/position regarding the abuse of the tool in question. A tool which is being used as a method by a lot of people who are more than willing to use against others to publicly shame and harass them.

The problem with this to me is that there are a lot of tools / things in the game which can be used by others to publicly shame them, such as:

Duty Finder
Party Finder
Chat
DPS Checks
Mechanics
Tank Busters
Heal Checks

If all of these things were not in the game, I'd imagine we'd see very little harassment! Square, plz fix.

[Krissey]

it would be like giving everyone a loaded gun which would increase the amount of people shot. I cannot prove that would happen, it is just a guess but one that makes perfect sense to me.

Well actually when you give everyone a loaded gun you get a mexican stand off. Nobody wants to shoot first because then all hell breaks loose and everyone dies. So actually giving everyone a loaded gun typically makes people talk things out.

Also if everyone can see that someone is doing badly, and they themselves can see they are doing badly there are a few choices. 1) That person can decide to put some research into getting better. 2) They can continue pulling low numbers not caring. 3) The rest of the group can carry them 4) They can kick the low performing person and get someone who can perform.