This game needs better DPS feedback

[Welsper59]

I must have all the best of luck because 9/10 times I use the DF, I always get above average- excellent dps paired with me.

It's quite probable that a hefty amount of the people who complain about low DPS (or any random player in general) are the sorts who are either not looking at the situation the player is in, they're putting themselves in a situation that would have fresh players, or their idea of good DPS is ridiculous. I can think of several people I've met in this game that fit the bill of one or more of those. I'm talking the sort of people that go into Sastasha normal and expect a PLD to hold threat against DPS that go all out. Or perhaps people that are in full highest tier tome gear complaining after seeing a DPS do low numbers but not noticing the person is in i150 or so gear cuz yah know... Aetherochemical Research Facility.

[Kaurie]

It's quite probable that a hefty amount of the people who complain about low DPS (or any random player in general) are the sorts who are either not looking at the situation the player is in, they're putting themselves in a situation that would have fresh players, or their idea of good DPS is ridiculous. I can think of several people I've met in this game that fit the bill of one or more of those. I'm talking the sort of people that go into Sastasha normal and expect a PLD to hold threat against DPS that go all out. Or perhaps people that are in full highest tier tome gear complaining after seeing a DPS do low numbers but not noticing the person is in i150 or so gear cuz yah know... Aetherochemical Research Facility.

Hmm, well it's more that in expert roulette DPS are pulling significantly less than what they are able to. The highest random person's overall DPS for the entire run I have seen is 1100. The highest DPS of my friends I have seen is 1300. The DPS that I bring on my alternate SMN (ilvl 214) is 1500. The median DPS I see is 800. I've seen maybe ~4 people ever above 1000, and have actually seen more DPS pull less than 750.

That means, on my alternate in less than max gear, I pull 187.5% of the median DPS. The highest DPS I have seen achieved 73% of my damage output. I have seen more people who do less than half of my DPS than I have seen do above 66%.

Now, I don't expect everyone to pull 1500+ DPS in expert roulette, I feel that I do put in more effort than most people in to playing my class well. That said, I feel that at the very least people should be pulling 1200+ as a median, with the lower end near 1000.

Using this information, I am not picking on individuals who may have extraneous circumstances. These are an average, median and max of all DPS that I have run into (mostly went on my SCH so 2 dps per run) since 3.2 launched in February (2 months ago).

[WinterLuna]

There are DPS guides all over the internet that take two minutes to look through and check if your rotation is correct. There are simple guides, and crazy in-depth guides telling you your BiS and every single cool down you can use and when to use it. Having something implemented in game isn't going to help any more than these guides do. If someone doesn't care about their DPS, then they will simply ignore whatever they implement in game.

For the people that do care, they most likely parse themselves, read detailed guides and practice their rotations.

If someone doesn't care about their DPS, nothing will make them care, whether it's an in game feature or not.

[Kaurie]

There are DPS guides all over the internet that take two minutes to look through and check if your rotation is correct. There are simple guides, and crazy in-depth guides telling you your BiS and every single cool down you can use and when to use it. Having something implemented in game isn't going to help any more than these guides do. If someone doesn't care about their DPS, then they will simply ignore whatever they implement in game.

For the people that do care, they most likely parse themselves, read detailed guides and practice their rotations.

If someone doesn't care about their DPS, nothing will make them care, whether it's an in game feature or not.

I am not sure if things are so black and white. While people who care more will naturally go out of their way to learn more, that doesn't mean that people wouldn't care if they saw they are performing poorly. Having in-game feedback showing that you are underperforming may provide enough incentive for some players to improve. There will still be the top min-maxers and the people who auto-attack watching netflix, but there are a great many more people who fall in between those two categories.

[Ghishlain]

I just want the ability to see other people's DPS so I know who to give my Balance and Arrow cards to on AST

[WinterLuna]

I am not sure if things are so black and white. While people who care more will naturally go out of their way to learn more, that doesn't mean that people wouldn't care if they saw they are performing poorly.

I understand that, but most people who give ANY care about their DPS will have already looked up a guide or rotation. If you want to play half decently, you can't just make one up, as most classes have a clear rotation or priority system. It's honestly not that hard to tell if you're performing badly. The aggro meter gives a pretty good idea if you really are under performing. I have seen black mages as 7 or 8 on the aggro meter while bards have been 3 or 4 in the same party, and when watching them, have realised they're doing something wrong or just have awful gear.

I don't know, I just don't think adding anything else is going to make a difference. From what I've seen, most people haven't even attempted SSS.

[Kaurie]

I don't know, I just don't think adding anything else is going to make a difference. From what I've seen, most people haven't even attempted SSS.

Personally, I dislike SSS. I've done it a few times and it is a novel thing - but it's ultimately useless. Clearing the dummy has no bearing on clearing the content. That aside, I think having DPS feedback realtime (my personal preference is a parser) is great for while you are leveling, learning and running dungeons. You'll see how your DPS improves as you change around how you play, and you'll see how your DPS compares to other players. This will help you develop good DPS habits as you level, as opposed to developing poor habbits for the first several hundred hours of gameplay - get to 60, get 210+ ilvl and go whack and SSS dummy and lose and wonder why - or clear it but still have no idea how to actually execute that damage in an encounter - or have no idea how you can help raid DPS by timing support more appropriately.

I know of quite a few people who work to improve their dps quite a lot, but still pull fairly low DPS considering (not as low as you sometimes see in DF, but under 10th percentile on FFLogs kinda low).

[_slowpoke_]

The aggro meter gives a pretty good idea if you really are under performing.

For the millionth time, no, it does not. Abilities that drop enmity or reduce its generation exist, and good players will usually use them (plus, they are required in endgame content). Tank DPS and healer DPS cannot be measured by threat, either. It also doesn't tell you anything in situations with more than one target. Enmity is not an indicator of DPS performance and it never was. Please stop spreading this nonsense.

[Kimimoto]

With the introduction of Savage the difficulty curve is non-existent, it goes from potato > Thordan/Sephy/Savage. The problem is the gap isn't being filled, we have both Alex normal (which needs to be harder) and Void Ark (which needs to be re-purposed as a mid-core raid) as catch up content for people who don't even plan on raiding. The lack of difficulty is the problem, Demon Wall gave you DPS feedback by not clearing it. If all the 600 DPS 1 skill mashers in Expert were thrown at the Demon Wall they'd all have to learn their basic rotations pretty quick. People not caring isn't the problem, the problem is not holding them accountable for not caring.

[WinterLuna]

Snip

I didn't say it could be "measured" nor was I referring to end game content or multiple targets, so please don't try to invalidate what I said based on those points.

If you're using an enmity reducing skill, its common sense to realise that's why you're low on the aggro meter. That's clearly not what I was referring to. I was referring to people who are under performing (as you even quoted) and noticing that personally. If your DPS is really that bad like the OP is describing you wouldn't even need to use an enmity cool down.

My point was, based on my experience, that bards were clearly out DPSing a black mage which was also blatantly obvious on the aggro meter. The black mage was casting random spells and using Blizzard at full mana, and his gear was pretty bad.

If you're really that bad, yes, the aggro meter will show it. You can try to invalidate me all you like, but I've seen it multiple times for myself. The parse numbers people threw out also proved it. I never said it measured DPS, I said it gave a good idea. If you're a monk against 3 bards and you're 8th on the aggro meter without using an enmity reducer, you don't need to be parsed to know you're not doing very well.