This game needs better DPS feedback

[Ilitsa]

When I go into DF, I'll look at the group, if I have a smn or blm in group, I'll pull as big as I feel I can handle, but I'm not going to pull 3-4 sets of mobs if I have a composition like mnk/drg/nin that, in my opinion just slows things down more than anything. as for dps, I only expect things to die, I don't care how long it takes, because as a tank, I can manage my cd's just fine and trust my healer to do the same for mp management. I never expect a healer to dps, and if they do, it's a pleasant surprise. Sometimes i'll get slower dps players and guess what I do then? Adjust accordingly. There is literally zero point in screaming at them or anything else, as you'll never see them again, they'll never see you again. It's far better to just have a decent, pleasant run, than cause the friction and tension that qq'ing about numbers causes most of the time. People need to just get over themselves. the other 3 players aren't there to meet your personal requirements, and you're not there to dictate their abilities. This has nothing to do with "feelings" or "morality" it's just common sense. Act like a douchebag, get treated like one. If you want to look like a moron raging about "sub-par deepz" more power to you, just know that you don't help anything by being like that, and, if anything, just gets you to look stupid, and has the other 3 people in your group laughing at you.

[Kaurie]

When I go into DF, I'll look at the group, if I have a smn or blm in group, I'll pull as big as I feel I can handle, but I'm not going to pull 3-4 sets of mobs if I have a composition like mnk/drg/nin that, in my opinion just slows things down more than anything. .

This depends largely on the competency of your players. Every job has higher DPS output on AoE than single at certain thresholds. NIN, the worst AoE DPS, has higher DPS on 5+ targets. As another note, MNK has better AoE than BLM I believe, if not they are very close.

As for the remainder of your post, we are not discussing screaming at DPS, we are discussing providing better feedback so that DPS know they are doing poorly.

[Ilitsa]

As for the remainder of your post, we are not discussing screaming at DPS, we are discussing providing better feedback so that DPS know they are doing poorly.

and a vast majority of "feedback" that is given, is utter shit flinging and trash talking. So yes, it was relevant.

[Kaurie]

and a vast majority of "feedback" that is given, is utter shit flinging and trash talking. So yes, it was relevant.

I think you are misunderstanding what I meant. We are discussing the development team adding an in-game tool which provides direct feedback to the DPS players without the need for other players to discuss / say anything.

That said, a common suggestion (and one I suggest) is to add a full-party in-game parser. I understand a common argument against it is that it may increase trash talking. That said, I disagree that it would increase this, but we can never really know 100% unless they monitor exactly how many people trash talk now, implement the change and monitor the number after. That will never happen, so it's always an argument of "Well my experience is [insert whatever]" and that is evidence that this is always the case!

So, on topic, do you think the game needs a built in tool for providing DPS feedback on their performance? If yes, do you think a parser is adequate, or do you have another suggestion? If no, why not?

[KaijinRhada]

...but I'm not going to pull 3-4 sets of mobs if I have a composition like mnk/drg/nin that, in my opinion just slows things down more than anything..

At 60, melee classes should have pretty competent AoE, tanks running around and pants-on-head errors notwithstanding. So it all falls down to below.

This depends largely on the competency of your players. Every job has higher DPS output on AoE than single at certain thresholds. NIN, the worst AoE DPS, has higher DPS on 5+ targets. As another note, MNK has better AoE than BLM I believe, if not they are very close.

^This, and yes, MNK can have comparable, if not better, AoE than BLM depending on how long the pull lasts. Regardless of length, a good MNK will AoE accordingly. My BF and I used to double MNK before he switched to BLM, and we made things melt then just as well as we do now.

As far as the rest of the post, as Kaurie said, no one here is yelling at low performers. We want tools that can help indicate that there is room to improve, and tools that can help the process of improving. More information is good!

We aren't expecting optimal DPS from players in DF, but it's not wrong to expect bare minimum from players, which many are actually doing well below even that. When I step into current content I am not going to expect everyone to do over 1.4k+, hell I don't expect 1k, but if people are doing 400-600 there is something really off considering that's level 50 numbers.

[Raffounz]

But we need it to be REQUIRED. You wanna do the fight? Just complete the SSS. Maybe mitigate values to under 10% of actual, for not-really-optimized people. Solved.

[Kerrigen]

The bigger problem is the game isn't demanding enough and rarely if ever pushes players that aren't even doing the bare minimum to get better. Easy content is far too easy and then there's a huge gap with actually hard content with next to nothing in between. This breeds players that rarely strive to better themselves and expect to be carried without a care in the world.

If SE wants the general skill level of their playerbase to go up instead of down (and my gut feeling tells me that everyone got a bit worse with lv60 and the new skills/rotations), they need to provide a bigger challenge in content that everyone does. I doubt that they care much, though.

[Garotte14]

I didn't read every comment, so I'm sure someone else already said it but, it doesn't matter what they put into the game, it won't make anyone better. To those that actually care about how they perform, they are already taking steps to get better. I.E. Reading guides, practicing rotations, getting friends to parse them, SSS, etc. Someone who doesn't care, isn't going to start caring. SSS is fine because it's used for ppl who already care.

[Kazumac]

I didn't read every comment, so I'm sure someone else already said it but, it doesn't matter what they put into the game, it won't make anyone better. To those that actually care about how they perform, they are already taking steps to get better. I.E. Reading guides, practicing rotations, getting friends to parse them, SSS, etc. Someone who doesn't care, isn't going to start caring. SSS is fine because it's used for ppl who already care.

To be honest, I know of quite a few people who were motivated by seeing actuals. There's a set of users who need to see how they actually do before they will invest the time and research and that is the underserved population.

[KarstenS]

Because everyone can read between the lines and see that if DPS meters were allowed, half the people in this thread would blast people because they aren't pulling optimal dps 100% of the time.

Its not about "you are not reaching 100%". Its more about the growing mass of people not even reaching the 30% mark. There should be a feedback to these players. There are many people outside that don't care about their performance because they don't know how bad they perform. I'm pretty shure there are alot of people, which would try to do better, if they would know about how far they are away from being good (not super or awesome, just good).