Repair NPCs in Dungeons

[Squigley]

While we're waiting for this wonderful feature to be implemented, here's a workaround:
1.) Write "Check gear" on a post-it note
2.) Stick the note on your display
3.) ???
4.) Profit!

Yeah, I'm serious! I kept forgetting to gather soils for our FC gardeners, so I just put a post-it on my display as a reminder and it helped.

The game does remind you in BIG text in the middle of the screen to repair your gear when the condition reaches 10%. After that dung you should head straight to the repair NPC. Unless you forget. If so, see workaround.

[Eidolon]

No, it doesn’t. We practically had a suicide mission to the Aery. While Dragoons would WANT to go there IN-FORCE, they would have to retcon a LARGE portion of the story to get more dragoons in there.

Really? It'd be pretty easy to say "We attempted to send a scouting party, but the defenses of the Aery saw most my allies fall. I've managed to survive by hiding amongst the rocks, but I don't know how much longer I can stay hidden."
Having such an NPC adds to the desperation of the atmosphere, and the "No going back now." kinda feeling that the Aery created with Nidhogg's lair.
As another pointed out, Lore is maleable. Lazy writing being preventative is not a reason to me to not do something. All it is, is a cheap and lazy excuse.

What?

Ah bloody 'ell, in this case I was referring to Sohm Al. Appologies for the mistake on my part. (Those two dungouns, I always mix them up, heh.)

What? Those places have constant mechanics wipes. Great place for repairs. And what about Bismarck EX? Ravana EX? TEX, IEX, etc. Those are not raid content. But there’s 0 reason for an NPC vendor to be within a stone’s throw of Ifrit.

I agree completely with this. However, again, consider the difference:
Ifrit -> Doesn't have you killing packs of mobs to the end, as well there are three bosses compared to the trials just being one boss. This was my major point - that these things aren't as in-need of it because it's substantially less likely for it to be a scenario that your gear would break. I have conceded this point before - that I would prefer it to only be for dungouns. Trials/raids do not apply to my request.
However, I could easily justify an NPC being in the start of each zone for the 'catch up' raids (Crystal Tower, Void ark) - it is the raiding where I may or may not be able to put NPC's in there. And I'm perfectly fine with that, as I said, I don't want to put them there.

Yes, yes it would. He has no training, and would have to have a HUGE amount of his lore changed (he has a lot of it in various snippets through the unlocking of the Crystal Tower raids) to meet this criteria.

His lack of training does not stop him from coming all the way to the end after we clear the path, and thus should not stop him from standing at the entrance saying "I will follow as soon as it is safe." He is clearly following us, so no, the lore is not stretched in the least in this scenario.

This was in response to OP’s

This is purely circumstantial and not a data-center wide constant. You should read the points that I respond to for context.

The point was, the 'evidence' in both scenarios is subjective. It does not make any point more/less valid, but I suppose you are right in this regard - it is better for me not to touch this one as it's moreso just fuel interjecting in this scenario.

I’ve got 3 people in my raid group alone who ONLY leveled crafting so they could repair during battle, etc. They. HATE. Crafting. So yes, it ONLY takes away their benefit. SE gonna refund them the time it took to do that?

No, it doesn't take away their benefit, because they still:
+Can repair over 100%, making it substantially more useful than an NPC.
+Can repair CHEAPER than using an NPC.
+Can repair AT ANY TIME, including during combat.
+Can repait at ANY PLACE, not requiring to talk to an NPC to do it.
So no, it does not take away from their benefits, in any way, shape or form. it is still useful to them to have it.

Because we’re the all powerful Warrior of Light, and they’re Nobody Boot-stain with 0 capability to assist IN the dungeon.

Point is, the NPC standing at the entrance on the outside of the duty, and the NPC standing at the entrance on the inside of the duty is exactly the same. In both scenarios, they are doing nothing special at all. They are just standing there as a 'guard' of sorts, and this applies to all the NPC's.

You’re right here, but ironically negligence also implies YOUR failure to do something. YOUR failure, YOUR responsibility. YOU need to fix it. If you are negligent AND you still don’t fix the issue, then yes, it is WILLFILLY doing it. As you are WILLFULLY not fixing your negligence.

I've already taken the time to fix my mistake. However, I can not fix the mistakes of others. Thus, I would like SE to add a failsafe to make sure that other people are protected. There is only so much I, as an individual player, can do.
And again, making a mistake and being negligent, while it is the fault of the person, is still a human mistake. It happens.
Let's think of it this way. There are rules in many scenarios that require attention, second-checks and verifications, that protect from negligence. Under your proposed system, we wouldn't need these second-checks and verifications built into the system, because everyone should "Just not be negligent."
The fact of the matter is, systems are in place to protect people from negligence and mistakes, because they are needed. They may seem redundant at times, but the purpose is simple - to protect the lowest common denominator from making a mistake.

There's no refutation, they say one thing, you say the opposite, neither of it is 100% fact, its all opinion. Your proving your point with “Evidence” is just as paper thin as everybody else's.

Quite the opposite, I've poitned out exact lines of dialogue, NPC's that could apply to the zones, how it can be used to supplement the lore, the actual benefits that crafter's have over those who use NPC's and how it does not take away from their benefits.
The scenarios I can not truly refute, are the ones that neither side can claim to understand - such as the complexity of the coding that one other poster claimed to see. They stated it would be "Easier to just make it so you can repair in dungouns", but there's no proof of that. I, however, do not claim it is "Easier to just add NPC's to dungouns", but rather, made a concession and said "I would rather see both" as well as I do not believe the fact that "It might be hard :c" is a reason to not add something to the game.

And I'm going to sound like a jerk here, but now that I see that its intentional from all your posts Eidolon, there is no d-u-n-g-o-u-n.

Ah yeah thanks, I always spell it wrong, I'll keep an eye on it and try to fix it. XD I don't mind someone correcting my spelling and will actually thank you for it, it is a known issue with me but when I am typing so much I sometimes neglect a little on the spelling. I'll run a spellcheck next time to help out if it bothers ya.

While we're waiting for this wonderful feature to be implemented, here's a workaround:
1.) Write "Check gear" on a post-it note
2.) Stick the note on your display
3.) ???
4.) Profit!

Yeah, I'm serious! I kept forgetting to gather soils for our FC gardeners, so I just put a post-it on my display as a reminder and it helped.

The game does remind you in BIG text in the middle of the screen to repair your gear when the condition reaches 10%. After that dung you should head straight to the repair NPC. Unless you forget. If so, see workaround.

See, I'm a little mixed on this. I think postit notes are great, but ... I'll be honest, I don't know many people who want to put post it notes on their computer. Especially if they do more with it (Such as work, or even just other games) that pertain specifically to FFXIV all over their computers?

And I also don't keep any Post-It notes around. <_< I mostly use technology for my reminders and notes.

[Zantitrach]

Really? It'd be pretty easy to say "We attemp.......den."

This dragoon (lore) who has 100% focused on martial powers can suddenly fix your gear? How? He has no crafting/repair training!

His lack of training does not stop him from coming all the way to the end after we clear the path, and thus should not stop him from standing at the entrance saying "I will follow as soon as it is safe." He is clearly following us, so no, the lore is not stretched in the least in this scenario.

His lack of training for REPAIR. He's not a CRAFTER. There would have to be loooots of dialogue ret-conned and redone. You can't just suddenly him show up, oh by the way I craft, lemme fix your gear plx.

No, it doesn't take away their benefit, because they still:
..
So no, it does not take away from their benefits, in any way, shape or form. it is still useful to them to have it.

No, if there's a NPC at the beginning of the dungeon, they no longer will NEED to repair mid combat as they can literally do it right when the instance starts so the gear won't be break mid-combat. They will not NEED to repair to 199%, as they can do it right when the instance starts so the extra 100% is useless. By having the NPC Right there when the instant starts it eliminates the positives OF the positives you list. To clarify:

+Can repair over 100%, making it substantially more useful than an NPC.

Repairing over 100% is POINTLESS when EVERY instance you do has a repair NPC.

+Can repair AT ANY TIME, including during combat.

Repairing during combat is pointless when the beginning of the instance has a repair NPC (0 chance of it breaking during combat if you repair right when the instance starts and if it breaks during a long dungeon then you HAD to have died, which means you're back at the beginning and can use the repair NPC again).

+Can repait at ANY PLACE, not requiring to talk to an NPC to do it.

Completely pointless “perk” to begin with. We still have to talk to an NPC to buy dark matter, albeit slightly less often. Flip-side it… the repair NPC lets me repair ALL my gear without having to change classes, something that I use FREQUENTLY for my crafting classes as shared gear means the MH/OH don’t lose as much durability and are not at the same durability loss as the rest.

+Can repair CHEAPER than using an NPC.

This is the ONLY “perk” they now have, and you know what, if you have the crafting classes… you are NOT hurting for money. So yet again….this.is.pointless.

I've already taken the time to fix my mistake. However, I can not fix the mistakes of others. Thus, I would like SE to add a failsafe to make sure that other people are protected. There is only so much I, as an individual player, can do.

The “Failsafe” you want is to be able to request repairs from crafters in your party. Which people have mentioned MANY times in this thread. NOT adding a repair NPC.

Under your proposed system, we wouldn't need these second-checks and verifications built into the system, because everyone should "Just not be negligent."

No, I have NOT proposed a system. Don’t put words in a person’s mouth. I’m in favor of me, the CRAFTER being able to repair other person’s gear. Have them carry the dark matter like me and request it like a meld. I’m happy. I want no compensation for this or anything, I want them to be RESPONSIBLE and carry dark matter or repair their gear before they queue in.

Quite the opposite, I've poitned out exact lines of dialogue, NPC's that could apply to the zones, how it can be used to supplement the lore, the actual benefits that crafter's have over those who use NPC's and how it does not take away from their benefits.

No offense, your “exact lines of dialogue” for lore purposes are shoddy and do not fit half the scenarios you claim they do.

I'll run a spellcheck next time to help out if it bothers ya.

I knew what you meant, so it didn’t “bother” me. I was more just shocked that you’re intentionally spelling it that way and not accidentally as it is not a way to spell that word. Ever.

And I’d like to propose my question again. Has an NPC ever repaired gear with dark matter? If not then the lore is that it’s the player character’s extensive crafting experience that allows the use of this dark matter. Which means you’re not just asking for Joe Schmoe NPC repair to every instance, but an actual crafting aficionado (lore-wise) to every instance, which is even MORE un realistic.

[Eidolon]

This dragoon (lore) who has 100% focused on martial powers can suddenly fix your gear? How? He has no crafting/repair training!

The Dragoons (Lore) are all about effectively fighting Dragons. Part of any combat experience, is frequently the upkeep of gear. If your armor breaks while in the field, you will be able to repair it in the interim of the fight.

Someone who neglects this is very possible to exist, but someone who exercises the above example is equally as likely to exist. It's not unrealistic for someone to be able to repair their own gear.

His lack of training for REPAIR. He's not a CRAFTER. There would have to be loooots of dialogue ret-conned and redone. You can't just suddenly him show up, oh by the way I craft, lemme fix your gear plx.

He's an adventurer, is he not? Is there anything to imply he does not craft? Anything to imply that he does not have the capability of repair? Further, you are taking game elements (The level of your jobs) as elements of lore. Tataru had story added to her that allowed her to weave, but nothing before that (IIRC, going by memory on this one, sorry) ishgard that suggested she should be able to repair gear.
This goes back around to the subject I originally brought up - these things can be used to enrich the characters, using a variety of unique methods. For example, he might have a device he found while adventuring that repairs the gear - so that he himself isn't the crafter, but he has a way to do it. Such things can add depth and flavor to the characters that are placed that is sorely lacking at times (And at other times, that we just overlook - such as NPC's in areas we can talk to in the interim.)

No, if there's a NPC at the beginning of the dungeon, they no longer will NEED to repair mid combat as they can literally do it right when the instance starts so the gear won't be break mid-combat. They will not NEED to repair to 199%, as they can do it right when the instance starts so the extra 100% is useless. By having the NPC Right there when the instant starts it eliminates the positives OF the positives you list. To clarify

Repairing over 100% is POINTLESS when EVERY instance you do has a repair NPC.

I can't really agree with this. Repairing over 100% is a huge benefit, because it means not only do you get the full benefit of the repair, every single time, but you also can go longer from the same repairs than someone who repairs otherwise.

Going from 120%, as an example, to 0%, will take longer than 100% to 0%.

Going from 120%, and repairing again at 20%, will put you back to 120%, just like repairing at 0% will put you back to 100%. However, in the second example, you lose the use of your gear for that 0%, compared to a crafter who can do it (in combat) or likewise before it becomes a problem (at 20%)

I won't deny, being able to repair my own gear is a godsend. If I couldn't do it, I'd probably have been made useless a number of times in dungeons.

So, I can't really agree that it eliminates the positives of repairing over 100%. The benefits of it still exist.

Repairing during combat is pointless when the beginning of the instance has a repair NPC (0 chance of it breaking during combat if you repair right when the instance starts and if it breaks during a long dungeon then you HAD to have died, which means you're back at the beginning and can use the repair NPC again).

I can effectively consider it gil lost and profit lost if I repair at the start of the dungeon instead of repairing my gear using Dark Matter. The reason for this, is because of the fact that the rapairs from an NPC cost more than the Dark Matter costs, and I only get up to 100%. Meanwhile, Dark Matter gives me 100% on top of my current repairs - and will allow me to wait a little longer for my next repair (Assuming I repaired before 0%.)

The benefit of being a crafter is definitely there, you just have to be willing to accept that the only benefit you truly lose, is the exclusivity of being able to repair in the dungoun (as a person who leveled the crafts.) I think that prioritizing the well being of the party that might potentially suffer the mistake, is more important than the well being of someone's feelings because they are no longer part of a group that can do it exclusively.

Completely pointless “perk” to begin with. We still have to talk to an NPC to buy dark matter, albeit slightly less often. Flip-side it… the repair NPC lets me repair ALL my gear without having to change classes, something that I use FREQUENTLY for my crafting classes as shared gear means the MH/OH don’t lose as much durability and are not at the same durability loss as the rest.

This is the ONLY “perk” they now have, and you know what, if you have the crafting classes… you are NOT hurting for money. So yet again….this.is.pointless.

Not all crafters are rich. Many people who - as I believe you quoted - only leveled their crafters exclusively for the purpose of repairing mid raid and hate crafting - are likely not wealthy due to crafting.

When I first leveled my crafters, for example, I had millions of gil. The reasons for this, was because I would do run selling (Ah, I better duck, I am sure someone will hate me for this.) - it had nothing to do with my crafts being leveled.

Likewise, I have had friends who have said, "I leveled my crafts but I'm not rich." It is all about effort, so to use one's wealth as a basis of the validity of adding this, is flawed because it does not take all playstyles into consideration.

The “Failsafe” you want is to be able to request repairs from crafters in your party. Which people have mentioned MANY times in this thread. NOT adding a repair NPC.

Actually, I have taken note of this many times, and have contested it for only two reasons:
1) I do not believe the addition of an NPC to the start, as well as being able to request repairs, are mutually exclusive. I believe that both would be great additions to the game.
2) This being exclusively added, means that people will need to remember to keep a stack of DArk Matter with them, as well as have someone else in the party who is able to repair their gear (So you are banking on having both of these things.)
2b) Should you allow the Dark Matter to be consumed from the requested players inventory, then you will likely see more hesitation from others about this because of the fact that they are effectively "Paying" a player to repair their gear, and if you add in the ability to pay them gil, you have created a scenario in which money can be moved between servers. Even capping it off, it wouldn't alleviate this concern that was also mentioned in the topic.

No, I have NOT proposed a system. Don’t put words in a person’s mouth. I’m in favor of me, the CRAFTER being able to repair other person’s gear. Have them carry the dark matter like me and request it like a meld. I’m happy. I want no compensation for this or anything, I want them to be RESPONSIBLE and carry dark matter or repair their gear before they queue in.

How should I say this -

I am not trying to put words in your mouth, but your suggestion is moreso that we don't need failsafes because people should be accountable for it. While this is a great thing in theory, it is very poor in practice. That is the point I want to make to you.

If you take away failsafes, you create a scenario that is far more dangerous (Which was the primary point, if albeit poorly communicated, of that statement.) Even your suggestion, in your own words, 'have them carry matter lik me', is extremely poor, because it
A) relies on them being in a party with someone like you
b) requires them to have the matter, taking up an inventory slot in an already limited inventory.

It's a very poor system to protect and help the players, and actually, in contrast, it is only trying to add more benefits to DoH. If one can argue against taking away benefits from DoH, why do we need to give them more benefits?

Currently, a DoH:
1) Is very useful in terms of end-game raiding, especially in the initial parts of it. Most cutting-edge raiders, world firsters, etc, were using crafted gear, because it was Uncapped (unlike the raid content we had, which I personally hate, but it is an undeniable benefit)
2) In theory, COULD have lots of money from their crafting (Though this is not garunteed, it is a potential benefit of it)
3) Is capable of repairing anywhere, anytime, at a cheaper rate, above 100%.
4) Have more immediate access to new items, due to being able to make them themselves. Crafters, those who make it, for all intents and purposes have "First access" to all new glamors. Followed by those with large wallets. Followed by the common players when the prices fall. Take for example, Thavnarian gear - it was originally millions of gil. I helped people farm it and make it as a crafter.

No offense, your “exact lines of dialogue” for lore purposes are shoddy and do not fit half the scenarios you claim they do.

Well, I'm not a writer, so I won't pretend that my writings are perfect. However, I will say, it's more credible to say that an NPC is quoted at the very entrance of a dungoun and likewise that - they could easily be moved inside in many scenarios, is more credible than saying "It goes against lore" without actually giving any citation. However, there are a few cases where it might be rough - as you pointed out, such as the Aery. I can concede that it might take some creativity, but in that creativity, we create more depth within the world.

To me, that does not take away from the world. That only adds to it. Can we come to a consensus on that?

I knew what you meant, so it didn’t “bother” me. I was more just shocked that you’re intentionally spelling it that way and not accidentally as it is not a way to spell that word. Ever.

Yea I'll speak earnestly for a moment here, it is literal ignorance (lack of education of the correct spelling) on my end. It's how I always believed it was spelled as a child, and somerthing I have failed to rectify as an adult. Which is funny, because as you can tell - I am quite literate. But it is a failing that I aknowledge in my own life. XD

And I’d like to propose my question again. Has an NPC ever repaired gear with dark matter? If not then the lore is that it’s the player character’s extensive crafting experience that allows the use of this dark matter. Which means you’re not just asking for Joe Schmoe NPC repair to every instance, but an actual crafting aficionado (lore-wise) to every instance, which is even MORE un realistic.

We actually don't know what method the NPC's use. It's a point where the gameplay is divergant from the actual lore. I doubt the NPC's see a menu pop up saying "Do you want to repair this Person's gear for $gil?" like it would be in The Gamer manga (Though that'd be awesome.)

Simply, we could say they DO use materia, and the reason why it costs more from a Merchant is because of the fact that it is the profit margin for their repair (Charging for the service, but not the materials used.) For example, a blacksmith wouldn't charge you for his forge when he makes a hammer. However, he'd charge you a fair deal for the finished sword because that's the product he's providing. A bar doesn't charge you the cost of the establishment, but they might get an entry fee and their drinks are clearly higher than the cost of the actual cost because that's how they turn a profit.

So, for all intents and purposes, we do not know how NPC's go about repairs. However, it is done instantaneously, in a single transaction. The game does not Fade To Black to suggest a passage of time, which could be argued to imply that they do not take it back to the forge for reinforcement.

Does that satisfy for an answer to it? I do not want to say "They use it" or "They do not use it", because contextually speaking there is not any evidence (As I recall, please cite if you have a source that suggests otherwise!) that they do it one way or the other. All we have is situational evidence, which in a court of law, would really not hold up. I'd prefer to avoid it here, on both ends.

===
As an aside, while we may be para-quoting and discussing with one another, I would like to commend you on your maturity in terms of the discussion. It is a rare thing on the forums to meet someone who completely avoids defaulting to insults, and I respect it completely.

[Lemuria]

Non-crafters see no problem with dungeon repair because what's the difference between just before or during? Still dumping Gil.

Please don't put words into other people's mouths. I'm a crafter myself, moreover I have every single craft at level 60, and I have absolutely no problem with them adding a repair NPC to dungeons.

Honestly, at this point repairs are nothing more than a nuisance rather than a game mechanic anyone really takes seriously these days. From your Lodestone profile, you don't have every craft leveled up enough to elicit repairs on anything except mage gear and accessories so this minor change would be to your benefit as much as it would to anyone else. Especially given your main is apparently Monk who uses more leathercraft than anything else, a class you only have at level 15.

Basically, not all of us crafters are against this idea. Don't presume it's only the non-crafters who support it.

Edit: Also, why does no one seem to understand the fact that we craftswomen/craftsmen can repair our equipment at a fraction of the cost of a repair merchant? We already have convenience and cost advantages. Is this not enough to quell the argument?

[Xlantaa]

It is not weird suggestion. On Star Wars The Old Republic, you can summon a repair droid for you and for people in your party, even inside a dungeon.

BUT, I will agree with people who don't want it. This only makes the people being lazy. I prefer the crafter method.

A thing that can be interesting is the request repair (like request meld). If you have Grade X Dark Matter, you can ask for repair to a member on your party that have the enough level to repair. THat's actually more interesting that add a simple NPC inside because yes.

I can't imagine a thing like enter a Savage Alexader and have a guy in a corner "Psst, eh, you, want a mend?"

[WinterLuna]

I can't imagine a thing like enter a Savage Alexader and have a guy in a corner "Psst, eh, you, want a mend?"

This made me smirk so hard. *Enters T13* "Hey, that thing looks pretty big doesn't it? Not sure how I ended up in here.."

Edit: Again to other posters - it's not just a matter of whether NPC's would fit into the dungeon lore wise, it's adding all of these individual NPC's, which is something I'd rather SE not focus on right now.

[Zantitrach]

The Dragoons (Lore) are all about effectively fighting Dragons. Part of any combat experience, is frequently the upkeep of gear. If your armor breaks while in the field, you will be able to repair it in the interim of the fight.
Someone who neglects this is very possible to exist, but someone who exercises the above example is equally as likely to exist. It's not unrealistic for someone to be able to repair their own gear.

Maintenance and upkeep are a far cry different from repairing. Can the Dragoon use a whetstone to sharpen his spear? Extremely likely. Can he gather ore from an area and makeshift some rivets to put his armor back together? No. Not likely at all.

He's an adventurer, is he not? Is there anything to imply he does not craft? Anything to imply that he does not have the capability of repair?

OP is an adventurer is he not?........

Further, you are taking game elements (The level of your jobs) as elements of lore. Tataru had story added to her that allowed her to weave, but nothing before that (IIRC, going by memory on this one, sorry) ishgard that suggested she should be able to repair gear.

Not levels in the sense of levels, no. Levels in the sense of CRAFTING experience (lore wise) yes. If you pay attention to the dialogue in the crafting quests, it hits this concept wonderfully. i.e. I trust you to fix these level 5 leather boots, but not this level 38 jerkin because of your lack of experience (levels). They all talk about your “quality” of work, yadda yadda, etc.

This goes back around to the subject I originally brought up - these things can be used to enrich the characters, using a variety of unique methods. For example, he might have a device he found while adventuring that repairs the gear - so that he himself isn't the crafter, but he has a way to do it.

This goes back to my counterpoint, you’re asking for THOUSANDS of lines of dialogue that need to be ret conned and re worked. This is not something SE needs to invest in to fix such a marginal issue (And yes, it IS marginal. Threads of this exact nature crop up less, and have fewer supporters than the “Bring back 1.0 booty, booty slider” threads)

I can't really agree with this. Repairing over 100% is a huge benefit, because it means not only do you get the full benefit of the repair, every single time, but you also can go longer from the same repairs than someone who repairs otherwise.

But this ISN’T a benefit if there’s an NPC in every instance who can repair! I will 100% not carry dark matter around if I can just queue in and repair from the NPC. As you mention Inventory space is PRECIOUS, and I say that as a guy with 5 total retainers. As SOON as EVERY instance starts, I’ll just click the NPC and repair.

I won't deny, being able to repair my own gear is a godsend. If I couldn't do it, I'd probably have been made useless a number of times in dungeons.

Thank goodness you had SE’s implemented FAILSAFE for this type of situation……

I can effectively consider it gil lost and profit lost if I repair at the start of the dungeon instead of repairing my gear using Dark Matter.

If the person cared about that in this argument at all, then they would level the crafter anyway to save repair costs.

Not all crafters are rich. Many people who - as I believe you quoted - only leveled their crafters exclusively for the purpose of repairing mid raid and hate crafting - are likely not wealthy due to crafting.

They are not wealthy due to crafting, but from selling materials. They were all able to afford the MATS for 220 gear, and surprise I was able to craft BSM/LTW/WVR 220 gear, someone else was able to craft ARM/GSM/CRP gear.

When I first leveled my crafters, for example, I had millions of gil. The reasons for this, was because I would do run selling (Ah, I better duck, I am sure someone will hate me for this.) - it had nothing to do with my crafts being leveled.

I too had a few million, from gathering. Although just by leveling my crafts I tripled that.

Likewise, I have had friends who have said, "I leveled my crafts but I'm not rich." It is all about effort, so to use one's wealth as a basis of the validity of adding this, is flawed because it does not take all playstyles into consideration.

It IS all about effort. And if they don’t want to put EFFORT into the ONE thing they do, fighting (which requires REPAIRED gear) then they don’t deserve it.

Actually, I have taken note of this many times, and have contested it for only two reasons:
1) I do not believe the addition of an NPC to the start, as well as being able to request repairs, are mutually exclusive. I believe that both would be great additions to the game.

Way too much work for SE developers to implement both solutions. One being far easier to manage (hint, its not the one adding NPC’s to every instance)

2) This being exclusively added, means that people will need to remember to keep a stack of DArk Matter with them, as well as have someone else in the party who is able to repair their gear (So you are banking on having both of these things.)

JUST like crafters! How fair is that! They get the BENEFIT and PERK of mid fight repairs, mid dungeon repairs WITHOUT having to level the crafting classes! All for the price of dark matter!

2b) Should you allow the Dark Matter to be consumed from the requested players inventory, then you will likely see more hesitation from others about this because of the fact that they are effectively "Paying" a player to repair their gear, and if you add in the ability to pay them gil, you have created a scenario in which money can be moved between servers. Even capping it off, it wouldn't alleviate this concern that was also mentioned in the topic.

Why on earth would there be payment. There’s no payment for melding. Don’t arbitrarily add it to the system.

How should I say this -
I am not trying to put words in your mouth, but your suggestion is moreso that we don't need failsafes because people should be accountable for it. While this is a great thing in theory, it is very poor in practice. That is the point I want to make to you.

No, its still great in practice. It helps instill responsibility, thought, and care into people. The same reason in the real world employers prefer it if you have a good work history, or have attended college. It means you have to put in EFFORT in a TEAM (game in this case).

If you take away failsafes, you create a scenario that is far more dangerous

The failsafe IS to level a crafter and the ability to repair. No one is advocating to take it away. The failsafe is already there. We’ve advocating adding an addendum to that failsafe which is to carry dark matter.

Currently, a DoH:
1) Is very useful in terms of end-game raiding, especially in the initial parts of it. Most cutting-edge raiders, world firsters, etc, were using crafted gear, because it was Uncapped (unlike the raid content we had, which I personally hate, but it is an undeniable benefit)

This happens once, maybe twice. Its been, what 8 months since HW launched and crafter’s were finally able to contribute to the raid scene with something besides potions/food?

2) In theory, COULD have lots of money from their crafting (Though this is not garunteed, it is a potential benefit of it)

And fighters could have millions from running content (Your aforementioned selling raids for instance *though this is not guaranteed, it is a potential benefit of it)

3) Is capable of repairing anywhere, anytime, at a cheaper rate, above 100%.

Agreed, the only perk. Although I still say it’s a marginal one if you’re a crafter.

4) Have more immediate access to new items, due to being able to make them themselves. Crafters, those who make it, for all intents and purposes have "First access" to all new glamors. Followed by those with large wallets. Followed by the common players when the prices fall. Take for example, Thavnarian gear - it was originally millions of gil. I helped people farm it and make it as a crafter.

Fighter’s have equal “first access”. The big name crafters on Diabolos for instance, Dev, Rahl’s, Grabbyhands, Sino (people who craft and not fight 90% of the time) don’t have time to do things that require large time sinks. Take for example(yours), Thavnarian gear, which required drops from maps. Take for example bardings, or house furnishings that require primal drops and etc. If we’re talking casuals, take for example the Coffin Lid (Mhachi Coffin) from Void Ark. Real crafters do not have the time to run hundreds of void arks for the off chance it drops and the off chance they’re able to roll on it.

I can concede that it might take some creativity, but in that creativity, we create more depth within the world.
To me, that does not take away from the world. That only adds to it. Can we come to a consensus on that?

Yes, it would. However it also taxes the SE development team for stuff the MAJORITY of players would rather have them work on, new content and etc.

Does that satisfy for an answer to it? I do not want to say "They use it" or "They do not use it", because contextually speaking there is not any evidence (As I recall, please cite if you have a source that suggests otherwise!) that they do it one way or the other. All we have is situational evidence, which in a court of law, would really not hold up. I'd prefer to avoid it here, on both ends.

While yes, there’s no clear cut “I use/don’t use dark matter” there is actual a huge amount of evidence to suggest they do not. The multiple broken items/gear throughout the storyline for plot purposes that can never be fixed with a simple dark matter (broken ships/items/relics/gear/parts). FFXIV says this about dark matter
It has recently been discovered that this substance of unknown origin has the faculty to assimilate with other forms of matter, effectively restoring them to their original condition.
It then varies an addendum of “common materials” to “This specific grade of dark matter has been shown to bond best precisely crafted items made from high-quality materials.” If it was as simple as using dark matter (which does not specify weapons/armor/rings/etc) then Mor Dhona should have been rebuilt in days, same for Idyllshire and etc.

[Eidolon]

Maintenance and upkeep are a far cry different from repairing. Can the Dragoon use a whetstone to sharpen his spear? Extremely likely. Can he gather ore from an area and makeshift some rivets to put his armor back together? No. Not likely at all.

OP is an adventurer is he not?........

OP is an adventurer who has chosen not to persue being a desciple of Hand/Land. This should be just as valid a choice as saying that an NPC would choose not to follow it, just as it should be just as much a valid choice as saying an NPC DID choose to persue it.


To suggest only Player Characters are capable of multiple professions is just silly. Especially when we have proof that, people like Tataru, who knew nothing of mining, could just put on an outfit and go mining in Mor Dhona. And yes, that was a level 50 outfit, so she must've been worth something at it. Levels are arbitrary when stacked up before Lore, so I don't use them as a meaning of defining what the PC's and NPC's are capable of doing.

Not levels in the sense of levels, no. Levels in the sense of CRAFTING experience (lore wise) yes. If you pay attention to the dialogue in the crafting quests, it hits this concept wonderfully. i.e. I trust you to fix these level 5 leather boots, but not this level 38 jerkin because of your lack of experience (levels). They all talk about your “quality” of work, yadda yadda, etc.

They also consistently refer to your quality as being "Exception" and constantly going above and beyond their expectations, even when there is an NQ vs. HQ. Simply put, their dialogue is not proof of anything - other than that your character in terms of the lore (Story) is a 'master tradesmen proving him/herself as they go through the ranks.' It's more of a coming of age story than it is a story of progression. This is why even a level 50 craftsman doing a level 5 quest will still make sense.

And let's not forget the potential disconnect of "You made this?!" after you could buy it from the MB or have a friend make it for you.

This goes back to my counterpoint, you’re asking for THOUSANDS of lines of dialogue that need to be ret conned and re worked. This is not something SE needs to invest in to fix such a marginal issue (And yes, it IS marginal. Threads of this exact nature crop up less, and have fewer supporters than the “Bring back 1.0 booty, booty slider” threads)

I'm not asking for thousands of dialogue lines. There's definitely not thousands of dungouns (Man it'd be interesting if there was, but no, SE had too much of a harder time maintaining 3 per update patch, not to mention 'thousands.'

At most, it would need, what, 50, maybe 60 lines? And even then, if you just re-use the same NPC model without the dialogue, it can be inferred that the same NPC that met you outside the dungoun came inside to see you off from the entrance of the actual dungoun. So, in theory, you could just make it an NPC that pops the dialogue box like anyone else.

The Dialogue can be used to Enrich the world, or to give continuity if you do not want to use text from the NPC. These are things that are beneficial to the game. Choosing to abstain from it, however, because it's "Too hard" or "Too much work" is a poor reason not to do something, because there is literally no benefit to it - save the fact that the publishers get it easier. And personally, I hold SE in high regard, and want to see them add more - not less.

But this ISN’T a benefit if there’s an NPC in every instance who can repair! I will 100% not carry dark matter around if I can just queue in and repair from the NPC. As you mention Inventory space is PRECIOUS, and I say that as a guy with 5 total retainers. As SOON as EVERY instance starts, I’ll just click the NPC and repair.

You won't, but I and many of my crafter friends will. The reason being? Because it IS a benefit. It costs me less (And let's face it, I don't have millions on hand from runnign around spending more when I can spend less.)

So, this comes down to a subjective opinion about which one we find more valuable. I personally, as someone who can repair my own armor without relying on the off chance of running into someone, will keep dark matter on me because it will always be useful to you. You, however, would find that use to be invalidated if they added it to the dungoun. That does not make either of us wrong, however - let me ask you this:

Wouldn't you rather have the choice, than no choice at all? Wouldn't you prefer to say, "You know what? I don't want to keep that one extra slot filled with Dark Matter. I'd rather pay for the luxury of the space being free by using the vendor."

Again, this is only a positive. You choosing to make that choice is good. Just as the addition of NPC's to the dungouns wouldn't take away someone's choice to level their Crafters. This is why the percieved threat of 'losing' something is false. The choice remains, but it creates a situation in which there is a failsafe to protect players from a mistake. That is good for everyone.

Thank goodness you had SE’s implemented FAILSAFE for this type of situation……

Except it's only a failsafe if you level those jobs. If you never level them, then there is no failsafe. This is why that is such a faulty reasoning - suggesting that the failsafe exists for those who do not currently* have it, means it is coming up short as a failsafe.

If the person cared about that in this argument at all, then they would level the crafter anyway to save repair costs.

No, this is an effective arguement because someone with all crafts at 60 (Such as myself) does not want to use the NPC at the start, whcih is what you are trying to suggest they would do - because it would become 'useless' by your definition.

Someone else, however, may prefer to pay the premium of an NPC to repair their gear (and clearly already do) but want more ready access to said NPC because of the limitations created by the Duty system of FFXIV.

If this were like any other MMO on the market, where you could exit the dungoun but maintain the party, repair your gear, and re-enter and resume your progress - this would not be a discussion. But because SE has opted for a system of "In the duty until you win it or quit it", they have created a situation that would benefit greatly from the addition of NPC's.

They are not wealthy due to crafting, but from selling materials. They were all able to afford the MATS for 220 gear, and surprise I was able to craft BSM/LTW/WVR 220 gear, someone else was able to craft ARM/GSM/CRP gear.

Aye, as I said, They are not wealthy due to crafting. To use this as a basis of the arguement is flawed.

I too had a few million, from gathering. Although just by leveling my crafts I tripled that.
It IS all about effort. And if they don’t want to put EFFORT into the ONE thing they do, fighting (which requires REPAIRED gear) then they don’t deserve it.

Everyone works to earn gil differently, and prioritizes putting it into different things. Many people do not WANT to level crafters. Leveling crafters is boring and monotonous to me, but for me, it was worth it to do it. To someone else, it may not be worthwhile to do it, and that is fair for them. But again, this is about failsafes for those people who - in a game that says you can CHOOSE to do everything, should not be forcing you to do everything for basic quality of life changes.

Way too much work for SE developers to implement both solutions. One being far easier to manage (hint, its not the one adding NPC’s to every instance)

Who are you to say which is easier to manage? Let me give you a few examples of why I, personally, feel adding NPC's is easier.
1) The NPC's already exist in the game world, thus the programming already exists.
2) The system already exists, thus the programming already exists.
3) NPC's exist in dungouns currently (Or rather, interactable objects), and thus programming already exists to have such things in dungouns (IIRC, we also have seen some interactable NPC's so it's not completely unlikely that it'd be hard to add the NPC's)

Now, let's compare this to your suggestion, and see why it is a bad idea:
1) The programming DOES NOT currently exist to repair other people's gear. This is BRAND NEW PROGRAMMING square enix has to add (back) into the game, that has been REMOVED since 1.0.
2) The programming DOES NOT currently exist that allows players to make exchanges within a duty, thus requiring you to ADD IN THE ABILITY TO TRADE WITH ONE ANOTHER within a duty, thus creating an even greater programming nightmare.
3) The concern that players will be capable of moving money BETWEEN SERVERS exist, as I am sure SE would add in the option to pay for repairs as it is a premium service.
4) The concern that players will not carry Dark Matter into duty to request a repair from someone, or likewise that they will even MEET someone who can repair the gear.

As far as I am concerned, it is FAR EASIER to add NPC's and a line of dialogue, or just straight up copy-pasting NPC's from the dungeon's very entrance than it is to create a whole new system within the game to give you what you want.

JUST like crafters! How fair is that! They get the BENEFIT and PERK of mid fight repairs, mid dungeon repairs WITHOUT having to level the crafting classes! All for the price of dark matter!

Except they DON'T Get that benefit if the crafter isn't there, thus the system fails on the fundamental level that the very situation it seeks to prevent, can still exist. Not only that, but the ease of access to request a repair midfight would likely be a lot harder than a player repairing their own gear mid fight (As I believe both of us have admitted to.)

Meanwhile, an NPC at the very start of the dungoun, is only accessible while outside of combat, comes at a premium cost, repairs it to a max of 100% and likewise can not be accessed from anywhere else but that one spot.

Why on earth would there be payment. There’s no payment for melding. Don’t arbitrarily add it to the system.

What? Yes there is. The whole "Request Meld" system in the game involves having the OPTION of adding payment via the Meld interface, and true to form - some people expect "Tips" for their work. There are also people who do it for free, but it does not change that the Melding system (Whcih is our parallel in this case) inherantly has that feature built in, and it should be expected that the feature would be added to a Reapir rquest system as well.

No, its still great in practice. It helps instill responsibility, thought, and care into people. The same reason in the real world employers prefer it if you have a good work history, or have attended college. It means you have to put in EFFORT in a TEAM (game in this case).

It's actualyl terrible in practice, because you are STILL neglecting all the factors that have to line up that allow you to use it. Teamwork doesn't matter if not a single member of the team has the requisite skillset. Again, this accountability does not work, because there is no way to garuntee crafters, and there is no way to garuntee that someone will have dark matter. And saying "Be responsible" is a poor excuse when it's something that could be prevented with a better system.

The failsafe IS to level a crafter and the ability to repair. No one is advocating to take it away. The failsafe is already there. We’ve advocating adding an addendum to that failsafe which is to carry dark matter.

Here's the thing:

Leveling a crafter, is purely a luxury. It is NOT a failsafe, because by the very definition of the word failsafe :

a system or plan that comes into operation in the event of something going wrong or that is there to prevent such an occurrence.

Now, your idea doesn't fit this definition, because it does not come into operation in the event that something goes wrong. Rather, your system falls more accurately and more succinctly into the definition of a pre-emptive measure, than a failsafe. Which is, again, great and all well and good, but does not resolve any issues that may come up from what the OP was originally trying to resolve.

This happens once, maybe twice. Its been, what 8 months since HW launched and crafter’s were finally able to contribute to the raid scene with something besides potions/food?

"Since HW launched." vs. "Since ARR launched.

Since HW Launched:
3.2+ : Crafters are very useful to the end-game raiding scene, and some people like it, some people hate it. I won't discredit either side on this, it's all opinion.
3.0+: Crafters are only somewhat useful to the endgame raiding scene, particularly in the fact that they could make accessories that were BiS for tanks until they started getting better pieces.

Since ARR launched, both of the above (obviously) as well as:
Gear in many cases was BiS for many classes from Crafters for the end-game raiding scene. This meant to be the best at your job (See: Bard) you had to get these items crafted.

Even without these listed items, Crafted accessories are still the only way for non-tank classes to raise their Vitality without sacrificing a primary stat, so it still had its use for initial progression raiding.

And fighters could have millions from running content (Your aforementioned selling raids for instance *though this is not guaranteed, it is a potential benefit of it)

It's less likely that a fighter will sit on millions of gil in my personal opinion. Runselling is particularly only capable on more hardcore groups, and isnt' something the common midcore player can do. The ease of access to this is harder to reach, to say the least - so much so that even I've fallen out of the end-game selling scene (And, for the reference, I've been selling since arouind T9, I wasn't able to for T5, and also sold for T13. I did Thordan-EX sells, but I didn't make much off it.)

A crafter requires an investment, but if you're willing to apply effort after the investment, you can definitely turn a profit. It's less garunteed and harder to pull off because the Battlecrafters have to have 6 other competent people to sell content. And the very same materials they can turn a profit by farming, can be bought by Crafters that then turn a profit off what they bought (if the crafters don't just farm the mats themselves like I do.)

Agreed, the only perk. Although I still say it’s a marginal one if you’re a crafter.

Will have to agree to disagree on this one, sorry. But I think that's subjective, let's leave it at that.

Fighter’s have equal “first access”. The big name crafters on Diabolos for instance, Dev, Rahl’s, Grabbyhands, Sino (people who craft and not fight 90% of the time) don’t have time to do things that require large time sinks. Take for example(yours), Thavnarian gear, which required drops from maps. Take for example bardings, or house furnishings that require primal drops and etc. If we’re talking casuals, take for example the Coffin Lid (Mhachi Coffin) from Void Ark. Real crafters do not have the time to run hundreds of void arks for the off chance it drops and the off chance they’re able to roll on it.

Hmmm. It's hard to say in this case who truly has access, then, because there IS A good dynamic on these items that require an equal measure of combat and an equal measure of crafting. I guess we should say, the ones who are most likely to have access then - are neither crafters nor fighters, but rather, those with the most money - so my revised list would shift them up a single slot.

However, when you talk about a pure DoW/M, vs. a pure DoH/L, which one has the stereotype of being "Rich" and haivng more access to money?

Yes, it would. However it also taxes the SE development team for stuff the MAJORITY of players would rather have them work on, new content and etc.

To argue Majority from either of us would be flawed. Instead, stick to the merits of the discussion at hand - don't try to strawman it and say "My side is the majority so it's right." and I'll pay you the same respect by not countering that "My side is the majority because most casual players don't craft."

While yes, there’s no clear cut “I use/don’t use dark matter” there is actual a huge amount of evidence to suggest they do not. The multiple broken items/gear throughout the storyline for plot purposes that can never be fixed with a simple dark matter (broken ships/items/relics/gear/parts). FFXIV says this about dark matter
It has recently been discovered that this substance of unknown origin has the faculty to assimilate with other forms of matter, effectively restoring them to their original condition.
It then varies an addendum of “common materials” to “This specific grade of dark matter has been shown to bond best precisely crafted items made from high-quality materials.” If it was as simple as using dark matter (which does not specify weapons/armor/rings/etc) then Mor Dhona should have been rebuilt in days, same for Idyllshire and etc.

This could be acounted for, however, in the fact that the ships, items, relics, etc. are far too broken to be able to properly use. Think of it more like this - your armor is constantly taking hits, but it's holding up. It's sound. At 10%, it's in danger, but it's still held together. Its' effectiveness at blocking an attack, is always at 100% all the way down to 1%.

At 0%, it breaks in such a way that it becomes useless, but can be repaired. This can be something as simple as the straps being broken, to the armor having been cleaved in two and needs to be welded back together. In the end, it doesn't matter - what matters is, "I can't use this shield" because it can't be held to block anymore.

The fact that our armor is fully effective until 0% suggets to me that we at 0% are not reaching the same dilapidated state of the very stuff you suggest is being fixed in the world at large.

[Fyce]

Since some people don't want to see the obvious flaws of a repair NPC in dungeons, well, here's another one: having such NPC will create more problems than it can currently solve.
People will start to wrap their minds around the idea that it doesn't matter anymore if they don't prepare themselves before going on duty. But this will only be true for dungeons (more or less, it doesn't prevent you from not having enough gils to repair, or to forget food/potions... It doesn't prevent you to be in the wrong job when queing either).

People will actually start to forget even more to repair outside duties. This will lead to even more cases of players with broken equipment in trials and other duties where you wont have the possibility to repair.
People like the OP will have to think even more about it and ask themselves "What I'm queuing for again? Is there a repair NPC in there?".

The only way to solve this would be to have such NPC everywhere, in every duty, for every situation. Yes, this means that you'd need to have an NPC right inside Ifrit's fire arena, on Bismark bait floating island, even on the freaking Chrysalis, right infront of the boss. This NPC would then magically leave the arena once the battle start, and come back if there's a wipe.

Stop breaking immersion because you can't think about being prepared before going on duty.
It's like plumbers asking everyone to have all the tools in their house incase they forget theirs. It's silly. Stop it.