Patch 3.2 Trailer is Up

[Kaurie]

This game has been out for more than 2 years now. Does anyone honestly think that a patch will somehow wildly change its formula? I understand that this game's formula may not be for you, but honestly, just quit if you're expecting something wildly different with a patch at this point, seeing what all the previous ones have brought. I like this game, I like this game a lot. Each major patch keeps the game from becoming too stale, adds a ton of QoL improvements, gives me cool-looking gear to get, and new raids and primals to challenge; I'm really excited.

It's not unusual for overhauls, both FFXIV 1.0 and WoW have had major overhauls to their systems over the years.

[Odett]

It's not unusual for overhauls, both FFXIV 1.0 and WoW have had major overhauls to their systems over the years.

That's true, but FFXIV's overhaul came in the form of a brand new game. My experience with WoW wasn't very far-reaching, so if I'm wrong, please feel free to correct me :3
I started towards the end of TBC, and played endgame through Wrath, Cataclysm, and a little bit of MoP before I got tired of the game; i took a lot of long breaks in-between. If by overhauls, you mean the change from 40 person raiding, into 25, into the option for 10, or not having to do reputation quests to unlock the heroic version of a dungeon, those all came with expansions. I'm not sure when they implemented raid finder feature, I wasn't playing by then, but all those things haven't been a wild change to the game's formula in terms of endgame objectives. You still did your daily and weekly heroics, and raided if you liked raiding.

If this game's endgame is being redefined, I would expect that to happen with the coming of a new expansion, not with a patch that happens every 3 months.

[Kaurie]

That's true, but FFXIV's overhaul came in the form of a brand new game. My experience with WoW wasn't very far-reaching, so if I'm wrong, please feel free to correct me :3 I started towards the end of TBC, and played endgame through Wrath, Cataclysm, and a little bit of MoP before I got tired of the game; i took a lot of long breaks in-between. If by overhauls, you mean the change from 40 person raiding, into 25, into the option for 10, or not having to do reputation quests to unlock the heroic version of a dungeon, those all came with expansions. I'm not sure when they implemented raid finder feature, I wasn't playing by then, but all those things haven't been a wild change to the game's formula in terms of endgame objectives. You still did your daily and weekly heroics, and raided if you liked raiding.

If this game's endgame is being redefined, I would expect that to happen with the coming of a new expansion, not with a patch that happens every 3 months.

Ah no sorry, tbh my experience is similar to yours. By overhauls I mean things like changing how talent trees work completely, reducing skill bloat and adding new stats to gear.

[Alberel]

That's true, but FFXIV's overhaul came in the form of a brand new game. My experience with WoW wasn't very far-reaching, so if I'm wrong, please feel free to correct me :3
I started towards the end of TBC, and played endgame through Wrath, Cataclysm, and a little bit of MoP before I got tired of the game; i took a lot of long breaks in-between. If by overhauls, you mean the change from 40 person raiding, into 25, into the option for 10, or not having to do reputation quests to unlock the heroic version of a dungeon, and those all came with expansions. I'm not sure when they implemented raid finder feature, I wasn't playing by then, but all those things haven't been a wild change to the game's formula in terms of endgame objectives. You still did your daily and weekly heroics, and raided if you liked raiding.

If this game's endgame is being redefined, I would expect that to happen with the coming of a new expansion, not with a patch that happens every 3 months.

Indeed major gameplay system overhauls usually come with expansions. That's partly why players have been so tired of the game since 3.0 launched as none of the existing game systems were improved and very little truly new was added. We just got more content added to the same old systems.

In my experience with MMOs every expansion needs to add a new form of core gameplay to keep players interested long-term. Something new to do alongside all the other core progression systems. In FFXI each expansion included something like this, with wildly differing forms of endgame content. We got things like Besieged wherein the beast tribes invaded Aht Urghan and players had to defend the city, and Nyzul Isle which was essentially an endless tower dungeon.

The devs need to sit down and think of a new core gameplay mechanic to add to the game. Something besides dungeons, fates and hunts...

[Alahra]

The devs need to sit down and think of a new core gameplay mechanic to add to the game. Something besides dungeons, fates and hunts...

New core elements that were added in Heavensward include Flying Mounts, Company Workshops, and Diadem. They also restructured the end-game difficulties, introducing a new "story mode" for the game's main raid.

Just because not all of those new things have been successful doesn't mean they didn't add something new. What they've added can roughly be compared to the additions WoW saw in its first expansion, which was largely the same as Vanilla WoW, much as Heavensward is largely the same as A Realm Reborn.

FFXI didn't add a great deal with its first expansion (RoZ) with its first expansion either. The main additions were Sky and the Prime Avatar battles (the latter of which weren't significantly different from Burning Circle NMs—they were both the equivalent of Trial battles in FFXIV, really).

[Warlyx]

flying mounts arent used in endgame content sadly or combat for that matter , is nice to have flying but....since u cant mount in ANY dungeon not even outdoors dungeons let u use mounts , diadem could have been AMAZING , Company workshops are retainer 2.0 but for a few in the FC....

u cant compare TBC to heavensward....the 1 raid in wow had what? 12 bosses karazhan rocked, plus the zone was HUGE...add 2 "trials" to that with magtheridon and Gruul.

then u get SSC , with tons of bosses plus elevator boss :P , the eye was small yeah , but then Mount Hyjal....and Black temple both amazing in Content , size , lore ....

oh and Zul Aman......and Sunwell....damn ,the amount of content in tbc was huge at least for raiding.

Dailys in the isle was kinda cool too (tons of outdoor pvp :P)

too bad Blizz got lazy and started milking the cow so badly is almost dry. 1 year of "nothing " doesnt help at all...

[Alahra]

u cant compare TBC to heavensward....the 1 raid in wow had what? 12 bosses karazhan rocked, plus the zone was HUGE...add 2 "trials" to that with magtheridon and Gruul.

I was only comparing them in the sense that they have (so far) added the same sorts of "new" content. Most of BC followed the same structure as original WoW did. It didn't really add any new elements outside of Flight until later in the expansion's life.

[Odett]

Ah no sorry, tbh my experience is similar to yours. By overhauls I mean things like changing how talent trees work completely, reducing skill bloat and adding new stats to gear.

I guess you could see the tank Vit stat change in 3.2 as an overhaul. I'm looking forward to not having to compete with DPS over gear that's often considered BiS if you're an aggressive tank.

Indeed major gameplay system overhauls usually come with expansions. That's partly why players have been so tired of the game since 3.0 launched as none of the existing game systems were improved and very little truly new was added. We just got more content added to the same old systems.

The way we play our jobs has been completely changed with lv 60, we have flying, a crafting specialization system, FC workshops, and a casual tier to endgame raids, and then more of the things that were present in ARR (dungeons, primals, raid). I'm sorry, but I wouldn't call all that, as well as new zones, and the promise of adding more content over a steady basis "very little". Something I've noticed about the development team, however, is that they often have really cool ideas, but poor implementations of them, like hunts and the Diadem.

flying mounts arent used in endgame content sadly or combat for that matter , is nice to have flying but....since u cant mount in ANY dungeon not even outdoors dungeons let u use mounts , diadem could have been AMAZING , Company workshops are retainer 2.0 but for a few in the FC....

u cant compare TBC to heavensward....the 1 raid in wow had what? 12 bosses karazhan rocked, plus the zone was HUGE...add 2 "trials" to that with magtheridon and Gruul.

then u get SSC , with tons of bosses plus elevator boss :P , the eye was small yeah , but then Mount Hyjal....and Black temple both amazing in Content , size , lore ....

oh and Zul Aman......and Sunwell....damn ,the amount of content in tbc was huge at least for raiding.

Dailys in the isle was kinda cool too (tons of outdoor pvp :P)

too bad Blizz got lazy and started milking the cow so badly is almost dry. 1 year of "nothing " doesnt help at all...

None of those things were added overnight, though. You can't compare an expansion at the end of its cycle to one that has had one major patch so far. While we're at it, go back to WoW's dungeons (not raids) and realize how many of them are simple tank n' spank. WoW's dungeon system had a more "quantity over quality" approach, at the very least, FFXIV's dungeons all feel unique, and even the Hard Modes are completely different in map layout, enemies, as well as bosses, whereas WoW's heroic modes were like "it's the same thing but STRONGER!".

WoW has a much better open world, though, by leaps and bounds. I don't think any MMO will come close to rivaling WoW's open world.

I'd rather not have flying mounts as a gimmick in a dungeon either. Look at the Oculus in WoW, where they had flying mounts, and how horrible that dungeon was.

[Kaurie]

I guess you could see the tank Vit stat change in 3.2 as an overhaul. I'm looking forward to not having to compete with DPS over gear that's often considered BiS if you're an aggressive tank..

Oh I do see that as a change. Even the upcoming materia change is something different. I was just pointing out that expecting FFXIV to change its formula is not far-fetched. That said, a certain sense of realism needs to be considered. It's perfectly reasonable to assume that we will have materia slots on gear (something I've seen proposed on threads in this forum prior to the announced change), while requesting a complete removal of vertical progression is probably less realistic.

I tend to provide requests that walk the line between realistic and not-realistic. I do this, because I feel that SE tends to want to take baby-steps in their adjustments, so if they are taking a baby step towards a big change, the baby step will be much bigger. Whereas if they take a baby-step towards a small change, then it may be effectively unnoticeable.

I also hope that some of the bigger changes are things they think about while they work on their next expansion - where larger changes are more accepted and expected.

The way we play our jobs has been completely changed with lv 60, we have flying, a crafting specialization system, FC workshops, and a casual tier to endgame raids, and then more of the things that were present in ARR (dungeons, primals, raid). I'm sorry, but I wouldn't call all that, as well as new zones, and the promise of adding more content over a steady basis "very little". Something I've noticed about the development team, however, is that they often have really cool ideas, but poor implementations of them, like hunts and the Diadem.

You and Alahra both pointed this out. It's a good point for sure, lots of stuff was added. The issue is that most of that new stuff goes largely unnoticed by end-game, combat focused players. With the way Relic was added, ARR hunts are better than FFXIV hunts - so I actually use my Shiva mount more than my flying mount. Specializations are great for crafters, I guess? I personally don't craft and have mostly heard complaints, but have no real idea. The casual tier to end-game raids merely made the challenging content less desirable - this helped a lot for the non raiding community but was a huge hit to the raiding community.

In terms of dungeons, with the level increase, we effectively lost more dungeons than we gained. Many dungeons became obsolete, and most of the new dungeons were between 51-59. We have 5 dungeons now for our end-game currency, vs the 17 we had at 50. This is to be expected, but we do have less in a sense.

The biggest addition would be the new skills obtained between 50 and 60, and this is debatable, but I find they again took away from the game. I went from enjoying the following jobs and worked to gear all of them in 2.x: BRD, BLM, PLD, SCH, WHM, SMN, NIN, DRG to enjoying the following jobs in 3.x: SMN, WHM, SCH. For me, the changes took away the fun of a lot of jobs, and now I have less reason to obtain tomestones for gearing, less reasons to run the 24-man to gear alts etc. etc. This, of course, is personal opinion and experiences will vary.

[Odett]

Oh I do see that as a change. Even the upcoming materia change is something different. I was just pointing out that expecting FFXIV to change its formula is not far-fetched. That said, a certain sense of realism needs to be considered. It's perfectly reasonable to assume that we will have materia slots on gear (something I've seen proposed on threads in this forum prior to the announced change), while requesting a complete removal of vertical progression is probably less realistic.

I tend to provide requests that walk the line between realistic and not-realistic. I do this, because I feel that SE tends to want to take baby-steps in their adjustments, so if they are taking a baby step towards a big change, the baby step will be much bigger. Whereas if they take a baby-step towards a small change, then it may be effectively unnoticeable.

I also hope that some of the bigger changes are things they think about while they work on their next expansion - where larger changes are more accepted and expected.


You and Alahra both pointed this out. It's a good point for sure, lots of stuff was added. The issue is that most of that new stuff goes largely unnoticed by end-game, combat focused players. With the way Relic was added, ARR hunts are better than FFXIV hunts - so I actually use my Shiva mount more than my flying mount. Specializations are great for crafters, I guess? I personally don't craft and have mostly heard complaints, but have no real idea. The casual tier to end-game raids merely made the challenging content less desirable - this helped a lot for the non raiding community but was a huge hit to the raiding community.

In terms of dungeons, with the level increase, we effectively lost more dungeons than we gained. Many dungeons became obsolete, and most of the new dungeons were between 51-59. We have 5 dungeons now for our end-game currency, vs the 17 we had at 50. This is to be expected, but we do have less in a sense.

The biggest addition would be the new skills obtained between 50 and 60, and this is debatable, but I find they again took away from the game. I went from enjoying the following jobs and worked to gear all of them in 2.x: BRD, BLM, PLD, SCH, WHM, SMN, NIN, DRG to enjoying the following jobs in 3.x: SMN, WHM, SCH. For me, the changes took away the fun of a lot of jobs, and now I have less reason to obtain tomestones for gearing, less reasons to run the 24-man to gear alts etc. etc. This, of course, is personal opinion and experiences will vary.

Right, it's true that it's a matter of opinion. I myself have enjoyed the lv 60 rotations of the jobs I've leveled to 60 so far (DRK, WAR, PLD, BLM, WHM, DRG, NIN) and I feel like they add more depth, but it's really a personal thing. The easiness of Alex Gordias Normal was something I was/am against when it came out, mostly because it doesn't have a "place". What I mean by this is that players that don't seek challenges at max level already have a "raid" for this (the towers and now void ark). Ideally, I feel like it should have functioned as a stepping stone for players that would like to get into raiding, but its difficulty difference compared to Alex Savage was much too big, so it ended up being content that was soon outclassed by the other casual raid (VA) in terms of rewards. I guess the only way to keep it relevant after that was to add it to the relic grind.

I feel like Alex Normal mode would have been best implemented if it was that of a difficulty of Coil, and kept Savage the way it was, that way appeasing players who don't seek challenges with like 90% of this game's other content, more midcore groups with Alex NM, and hardcore groups with Alex Savage. Right now, we basically have Thordan, A1S, and A2S at the difficulty of your average raid group, and A3S and A4S for the hardcore raiders, which is not a lot of content for raiders overall. I guess that Patch 3.2 is looking to remedy this by making Alex Midas Savage the difficulty of Coil content at the time of release, so that should appease many raiders that have been smashing their heads against A3S, or quit as a result, thereby bringing a healthy amount of players back to the raiding community, but it also means taking a bone away from the cutting-edge groups that pushed themselves to beat A3S and A4S when it was new content.