Why are low standards for dps acceptable?

[Granyala]

Aside from the guy saying not to take it as encouragement it actually it possible for an Ice Mage to pull off some decent dps.

Well dummy tests aren't really conclusive.

Item level 182 (i180 weapon), 3 minute testing, no cooldowns:
Ice III -> Ice IVx2 -> Ice III: 557DPS
Lv 50 rotation: 900DPS
Lv 60 rotation: 882DPS

[tjw]

-snip-

While most of what you said is accurate, the biggest thing I'm having issues with in this post is what you deem rotation. Of course the trash mob rotation will be different from the level 60 rotation. That goes for ANY job. I have yet to see one job that is not different when it comes to AoE-ing mobs down and single target. Common sense will tell you that when people refer to lvl 60 rotation, they obviously mean the single target one. Of course you won't be using a single target rotation every time when you should be using your AoE abilities!

Enochian is up every minute. The time between bosses will be, at the very LEAST, three minutes. That's at least three opportunities to use Enochian to boost your AoE damage by 5% for thirty seconds. Why aren't you using it? Why does it matter if it falls off before the next trash pull? It's not like Enochian has a massive timer tacked onto it like Benediction or HG.

Most of the single target rotations are situational by default, on the virtue of how the community approaches dungeons (SPEED RUN AOE ALL THE THINGS TANK DPS STANCE NOOB HEALER CAN'T HEAL AND DPS VOTEKICK ABANDON). Does that mean that people shouldn't be using Fire IV and Blizzard IV? No. Usually when mobs are down to 2, or when there are priority targets (e.g. the treant after first boss Neverreap, chimera after first boss fractal, the bomb incubators in Pharos HM, the wall in Arboretum), is when it's more optimal to go into the single target rotation.

Nice to see you ignore were she actually does imply to use it regardless...

Or maybe I'm not just addressing her but the topic in general? You're getting a tad too defensive over sub-par play here, my friend.

[Kuwagami]

This is probably not the best analogy but I personally like to think of the Duty Finder as a public toilet

mentalities like this are the reason why the DF has many of its problems. "Who cares ?" "Nothing forbids me to do that" and whatnot.

Well, no. DF is a group work where you don't cherry pick your co-workers. Think of it like a group work in school with the teachers making the groups. You may end up with under-performing mates, but everyone should aim to do the best they can and you have the right to expect them to do the best they can.

And if they aren't even trying, hell sure you have the right to scold them for that. Slackers aren't tolerared irl, why should they be tolerated in a group content in a MMO ?

It may be in a game, but the 101 of human relations and group work are still the same

[TheUltimateSeph]

Enochian's rotation is fairly situational for a few reasons:

- Both Fire IV and Blizzard IV have longer cast times than other spells. These are not spells you can cast if you need to dodge quickly, and missing a spell in your rotation hurts your overall DPS far greater than other spells.
- Fire IV can only be cast under Astral Fire's effect, and does not renew the timer. You need to use other fire spells or ice spells to keep up the chain.
- Mis-timing your Blizzard IV (or having it interrupted) can mean losing Enochian's effect.
- Fire IV and Blizzard IV are both single-target spells. They're mostly useless on trash groups, and best reserved for bosses or tougher trash.
Now, having Enochian's effect boosts all your damage, so it's nice to have up by default, but the level 60 'rotation' is situational, and not something you would use all the time. Certainly not for most trash pulls, since you'd only get a few spells off before you move onto the next group.

While most of what you said is accurate, the biggest thing I'm having issues with in this post is what you deem rotation. Of course the trash mob rotation will be different from the level 60 rotation. That goes for ANY job. I have yet to see one job that is not different when it comes to AoE-ing mobs down and single target. Common sense will tell you that when people refer to lvl 60 rotation, they obviously mean the single target one. Of course you won't be using a single target rotation every time when you should be using your AoE abilities!

Enochian is up every minute. The time between bosses will be, at the very LEAST, three minutes. That's at least three opportunities to use Enochian to boost your AoE damage by 5% for thirty seconds. Why aren't you using it? Why does it matter if it falls off before the next trash pull? It's not like Enochian has a massive timer tacked onto it like Benediction or HG.

Nice to see you ignore were she actually does imply to use it regardless...

[Andrea]

The OP started the situation off wrong by making an inflammatory statement.

The OP did indeed start it off wrong. The tank was not in the right at all.

Its not really the fact of enochian being just 5% its more the way some people are trying to justify not using skills. Not just enochian just happens to be it this time. Could be raging stikes/B4B/ BoTD anything really.

Nothing gives you the right to negatively impact other peoples playtime. Nothing. It doesn't matter if its your class, your character,your sub. Nothing.

If I have no friends online im left with either Df or Pf. I could wait forever for a pf or I could do a df. Just because people can do something doesn't mean they should. Heaven forbid people ask for others to even try in Df. after all their character they can play how they like. They can be a pacifist if they want to be.

[Waliel]

Enochian is up every minute. The time between bosses will be, at the very LEAST, three minutes. That's at least three opportunities to use Enochian to boost your AoE damage by 5% for thirty seconds. Why aren't you using it? Why does it matter if it falls off before the next trash pull? It's not like Enochian has a massive timer tacked onto it like Benediction or HG.

Because it's only 5%. It saves you one cast per pull, if you're lucky, and most of the time you aren't lucky. 5% is too small to have any real effect in short AoE situations, and if the AoE lasts longer than 30 seconds it's not even worth it to refresh Eno -- unless there's a magic breakpoint with the number of targets, but somebody else can excel that. There is no reason not to use it, of course, but usually it only saves you a few seconds in the whole run.

Also lazy ;_;

[FeliAiko]

Yeah, "it's only 5%" except you have other factors like Astral Fire, Ley Lines, Raging Strikes, AST cards, Fey Wind, Foe Requiem, etc. that all contribute to the bigger picture. It all adds up.

[Vurtney]

I imagine this is how they see themselfs



And this is what i see actually happening when tanking

[Tanathya]

but usually it only saves you a few seconds in the whole run.

If we keep thinking of it all as a time saver instead of a way to improve the general skill, this isn't gonna work. I'd rather spend half an hour longer with players who try hard than a lazy ass who doesn't give a fuck because "it's too easy".

[Makomaki]

This was Fractal, it's not super hard and doesn't require people to know the ends and outs of their jobs. People learn at their own pace. if you want to suggest something they are doing wrong then that's fine. If they change, great! If not, either leave or just stay for the ride.

Well, that is true. BUT I do think that people are getting salty way too soon! Personally, I take all the tips I get seriously and try to do something with it. But unfortunately, a lot of people nowadays just don't like it when other people try to give tips. But thats Online gaming I guess.