Why are low standards for dps acceptable?

[Tanathya]

Again your trying to treat the symptoms of a larger problem. You "encouraging" best play does nothing.

But I did try to discuss the cure. It's not up to me, and me alone. I don't expect any change of behaviour, I'm not nearly as naive as to think that my words will have an impact, but you're passively telling us to discuss the cure, and that's what I have tried and, to a larger extent, did.

[Nalien]

Again your trying to treat the symptoms of a larger problem. You "encouraging" best play does nothing.

The larger problem is that the fourth party slot is utterly wasted. The way this game is balanced, you can very often find yourself clearing content without people. Dungeons do not require two DPS IMO, they can easily be cleared with one. Having two, however, just gives us a situation where one can slack off and just get carried through...

Kind of wish they'd just give us a Support role already... There would be less room for slackers then, the Tank would have to be tanking, the Healer healing, the DPS DPSing and the Support supporting, there would be no room for a second DPS to half-ass their way through the game. Arguably this falls apart when we get to Trials and Raids, since we start stacking roles in those, but I'd say by that point the problem would have been fixed. Nobody would be able to get through the game slacking in their role, every DPS will have to DPS properly or they wont be clearing dungeons, because they're the only real DPS and they wont have another DPS to carry them. They'll simply never even get to Trials and Raids without doing their Job properly.

Don't even get me started on the wealth of new encounter types we could even see with a dedicated Support role... Crowd control, a thing? In XIV?! One can dream... A Support role is seriously something they should have been working on for a long time now, it adds plenty to the game and fixes many of the current issues. Would we have a half-assed Bow-mage if Bard was instead turned into an actual Support Job? I don't think so. The issue was always that Bard was the only Job to really fit the role, but they could easily have corrected that with Heavensward. Turn Bard into a real Bard, make Astrologian a Support rather than Healer, bam, two Support Jobs. Not enough? Well, we only ever had two Tanks and Healers for A Realm Reborns run...

[RyuSaarva]

well you don't need tanks either so just use 4 healers?

[Odett]

I also wanted to point out the hilarious circular arguments aren't adding to the discussion. Neither side is wrong but as it stands people are allowed to play however they want. Your feelings and expectations be damned. But do continue to argue against the symptoms rather than discuss the cure.

The best cure would be to go back and instill actual DPS races in max-level dungeons like they used to. Remember the bees in the original AK? Remember when 2.1 dropped and all of the new dungeons had DPS races? Remember the first boss of Copperbell HM, where you had to kill it before the entire bridge was covered in fire, and the urgency of killing the Bomb because it would wipe the group if it exploded. Remember having to kill the last boss before running out of rocks to feed the worm with? There was also Haukke HM, where in the first boss, having low DPS would eventually cause the group to be swarmed by skeleton ads, and then have the giant skeleton spawn and wreck the group with its AoE stomp attack. The last boss of Haukke HM required you to burn the ads FAST, or it was a wipe. The first boss of Pharos Sirius was a total nightmare if you had mouthbreathing DPS that couldn't kill ads, and the Zu was the same, just like Siren, where not killing the pirate ads was total chaos.

The majority of those mechanics now have been either heavily nerfed, or completely removed. People complained that casual content was "too hard", the devs were dumb enough to listen, and after that, all we got after that, and still to this day, are dungeons were you could use random skills and still win. The only thing that playing well rewards you with in casual content now is a faster run, but I guess people somehow still enjoy 40+ minute runs of the dungeons we've been spamming every day since November. Purposely playing like crap because "I don't have to do better" is fine if you're playing a single player game, but if you're playing with others, where your laziness directly affects your group members, it's just plain selfish. The "cure" to these problems would be to actually give responsibility back to DPS players in four person dungeons, and maybe then when they learn how to play their job, they'll stop wiping at Bismarck EX with full ilv210 gear.

[Waliel]

Yeah, "it's only 5%" except you have other factors like Astral Fire, Ley Lines, Raging Strikes, AST cards, Fey Wind, Foe Requiem, etc. that all contribute to the bigger picture. It all adds up.

Then you realise you're only one of four people doing damage, so the effectiveness of that can be more than halved easily in the overall picture. 5% is 5% -- you go from 50-60 extra damage for F2 to 60-70 extra damage with Balance and Foe. RS is a long CD and not up all the time, but if you're gonna use RS, of course you're gonna pop Eno, too. Ley, Fey and Arrow are nigh but useless in AoE (you are on a static timer based on Transpose CD and mana ticks, no matter how fast your casts are) and do you more harm than good. Everything fire regarding BLM is assumed with AF3 unless otherwise stated, so that's irrelevant.

But like I said, no reason to not to use it for AoE, but learn your rotation first and then you can think about padding your numbers with Eno. Not using Eno for single target rotation is absolutely wrong, though.

If we keep thinking of it all as a time saver instead of a way to improve the general skill, this isn't gonna work. I'd rather spend half an hour longer with players who try hard than a lazy ass who doesn't give a fuck because "it's too easy".

I guess. But not using Eno during AoE when it's not even really part of your rotation isn't really a lack of skill. Learn to do your rotation properly first before trying to force a button in there that most of the time doesn't even do anything.

goobbue poop

How big is that thing, anyway? I'm so gonna ask that in the next live letter.

[Synrin]

There are people whose dps is low because they don't know, but try. There are also those who don't know, and don't try. And then they argue. It not just a low dps standard, it is low standard for a human being. And it isn't just dps. It is also tanks not tanking and not using their abilities, healers standing around when no one needs healing, scholars having their pets on sic. What can you do? Complaining or arguing in the tone the OP certainly did won't help. If someone boasted to me how they were better just for having leveled sth, I would be more sceptical, than if they asked, 'Can you please use x ability to do y? Thanks.'

[Khemorex]

the lack of empathy and humanity is so much lacking in this thread , u dont know whats going on in someone else head at the moment u join party finder :P

the rage building up in some people here is astonishing , maybe you should try to rage at something else ^^

i really wished there was a server wide blacklist , so i could blacklist some of the people here and never play with them :P

[Immut]

the lack of empathy and humanity is so much lacking in this thread , u dont know whats going on in someone else head at the moment u join party finder :P

the rage building up in some people here is astonishing , maybe you should try to rage at something else ^^

i really wished there was a server wide blacklist , so i could blacklist some of the people here and never play with them :P

Not sure which side you're referring to, but being bad and refusing to get better shows a lack of empathy. It's a game. You're supposed to at least try to be good at games. More importantly it's a TEAM game, and the team absolutely has a right to be pissed off at a player who isn't even trying. If you aren't trying, then you aren't really playing, you're just watching. And that's what twitch is for.

[Arrius]

Not sure which side you're referring to, but being bad and refusing to get better shows a lack of empathy. It's a game. You're supposed to at least try to be good at games. More importantly it's a TEAM game, and the team absolutely has a right to be pissed off at a player who isn't even trying. If you aren't trying, then you aren't really playing, you're just watching. And that's what twitch is for.

I partially blame the relic grinds for this, as the amount of runs you need to acquire the items/tomes you want is unrealistic high, which in return numbs down the emotions and said empathy, detaching you of really caring about someone in there. Because it is just another run in the same dungeon, as 34 times before.

[Immut]

I partially blame the relic grinds for this, as the amount of runs you need to acquire the items/tomes you want is unrealistic high, which in return numbs down the emotions and said empathy, detaching you of really caring about someone in there. Because it is just another run in the same dungeon, as 34 times before.

Honestly I kind of agree. I try to do my best in alexander every time simply because it makes the run go faster but holy shit i am tired of having to go in to every instance with a dump truck to carry all the garbage I get partied with. I don't even know how a full slaying warrior with ukonsvara can do 600 dps, or how ANYONE can do less than 400. I've had bards that were so bad they couldn't kill an add in a1 or a4 by themselves. Different bard each time. I've had tanks and dps pairs that died in quarantine. I've had healers that ONLY use physick and set eos to sic. It's maddening.