Why are low standards for dps acceptable?

[Andrea]

(however I find very funny how many 'pros' in this topic ignored this 'little' thing).

I find it funny how so many 'pros' in this thread ignored that enochian is literally another raging strikes that you pop and get more DPS. Sure you need to learn how to keep it up but as the OP said they had to ask for the BLM to even start using it.

[Tanathya]

I would point out that the enochain rotation is a liv 60 rotation, and is very different from the rotation used by the black mage while levelling, so saying that he/she "had lot of oportunities on her way to lvl 60 to learn the rotations" is just a non sense (however I find very funny how many 'pros' in this topic ignored this 'little' thing).

Is not a problem of standards, but a problem of how to give an advice to a person who does not know the liv 60 rotation (maybe he/she was a fresh 60?), and, for sure, "hi is this a bot?" is not a good way to start.

So you sarcastically calling whoever disagrees with you a "pro" is fine, but pointing out how the OP started the convo isn't. Double standards.

[Mycow8me]

Seems like every time one of these threads pop up, its concerning dungeons. Even the healer threads. We all know the dungeons (minus the expert ones) are facerolling boring and easy and don't require even remotely trying your best.

I'd actually be on the OPs side and care alot more if the threads were concerning an actual difficult raid or challenging content where players are pushed to their limits and forced to learn to do their job well. The make it or break it points.

Unfortunately actual challenging content is few and far between in this game. There really should have been some of these during the actual story questline but whatever, that's another big debate all by itself.

[Fyce]

We all know the dungeons (minus the expert ones) are facerolling boring and easy and don't require even remotely trying your best.

It doesn't matter if the content is easy, it's not a justification for being lazy.

Faster runs are always welcome, but when half your party doesn't give a damn about others and are here just to get carried, there's just no excuse as all respect is lost.

That's what JP players have and NA/EU don't, respect and consideration for each other.

[Mycow8me]

It doesn't matter if the content is easy, it's not a justification for being lazy.

Faster runs are always welcome, but when half your party doesn't give a damn about others and are here just to get carried, there's just no excuse as all respect is lost.

That's what JP players have and NA/EU don't, respect and consideration for each other.

Im not gonna disagree but my post was about learning what a persons "best" is and your not going to find that in a dungeon.

The only difference between jp and na is they dont normally call ppl out on stuff openly... last i checked the jp players had public blacklists on webpages for players not to play with. I think you hold them to high, they arent much different.

Lazyiness and believing you are doing enough are two different things. Imagine doing nothing but story and dungeons all the way to 60 then jumping into say a titan or ravana extreme. Suddenly you have to try harder cause what you believed to be enough or your best isnt anymore. Challenge brings out our best. You wont find that in a dungeon. I read the first part of this thread, someone came along and said the blm was a fresh 60 and learning

[lawlHT]

Yes, so many bots will drudge throught the msq to unlock heavensward so they can ice mage their way through Fractal #keepDreamin'

This does actually happen though. There are quite a few bots grinding esos in 60 dungeons hoping no one will notice

[Iagainsti]

This does actually happen though. There are quite a few bots grinding esos in 60 dungeons hoping no one will notice

Confirmation Bias. I'd love to see the proof of this if you can provide, otherwise you are just blowing smoke.

[Kaurie]

Yes, so many bots will drudge throught the msq to unlock heavensward so they can ice mage their way through Fractal #keepDreamin'

I am not sure why you think that bots would not have access to Fractals. However, no where in this thread did it suggest the BLM in question was using only ice spells, so your ice mage remark doesn't really apply. It merely characterizes your response as hyperbolic.

Nope, a loaded question is a inquiry put forth with an unjustified presumption iirc, perspective is irrelevant, unless we account the perspective of the Inquirer. If we do cater to that logic, the OP can't distinguish between an uneducated player and a preprogrammed avatar, and was snide in his narrow minded view.

You replied saying that a loaded question is not based in perspective, and then state that a loaded question requires an unjustified presumption. Whether something is justified or not is definitely a matter of perspective. Justified definition as supplied by google: "having, done for, or marked by a good or legitimate reason." Whether something is good or legitimate is a matter of perspective. We can continue down the definition train, but I feel that it's rather obvious.

So to continue on with the second half of your point, the OP could not distinguish between the two. The best way to distinguish between an uneducated player and a bot is through communication. Up until that point, presumably, there was 0 communication. So all the OP understood was that the player wasn't using a complex rotation (which could be a trait of either an uneducated player, a poor player or a bot) and had not spoken. Therefore, from my perspective (and from many others in this thread), it was a completely legitimate and justified presumption.

Confirmation Bias. I'd love to see the proof of this if you can provide, otherwise you are just blowing smoke.

I am not sure if you know what confirmation bias is. As defined, again searched by google, "in psychology and cognitive science, confirmation bias (or confirmatory bias) is a tendency to search for or interpret information in a way that confirms one's preconceptions, leading to statistical errors."

The person you quoted merely said (what they believe to be) a fact and didn't provide any evidence or any information that could be confirmation bias. They simply made a statement which they believe to be true. For example, I could say that 'all dogs are male'. This is just a statement and there was no confirmation bias present. If I were to say, "I saw 5 dogs today and they each had a penis; therefore, all dogs are male." That would be confirmation bias. In the context of bots, if the person you quoted said, "I saw someone using only a 50's BLM rotation and never spoke, so bots do exist." That would be confirmation bias. Ironically, in this you are applying an unjustified presumption upon the person you quoted.

[Iagainsti]

Rhetoric.

My response was Satirical, not in the domain of Hyperbole, get your Literary Devices in proper order.

I view presumption as a rhetorical construct--that is, it is a predisposition of the audience toward a claim that a debater makes. So, if an affirmative case (its significance, inherency, plan, whatever) makes an argument with which the critic agrees--then the affirmative case has the presumption. If an affirmative case makes an argument with which the critic disagrees, then the negative position has presumption. So the OP, with no proof to the fact that a Bot would be running Fractal with him/her, to word the question as such instead of something more passive, makes perspective irrelevant.

While I do agree that your example of Confirmation Bias is correct, I would argue that the original statement I quoted is also Confirmation Bias.

He [Peter Cathcart Wason] also coined the term ``confirmation bias'' to describe the tendency for people to immediately favor information that validates their preconceptions, hypotheses and personal beliefs regardless of whether they are true or not.

Without any proof to establish that a bot would be running Fractal, and the many posts before and afterwards stating the same without and clear proof to the statement would be confirmation bias. The Irony you speak of is lost on me, since I did not form any statement into a loaded question, nor did I presume any judgement on the speaker, I just requested proof with a side of satire.

#ThisGirl

[Seryl199]

My response was Satirical, not in the domain of Hyperbole, get your Literary Devices in proper order.

This thread is just chock full of arguing over semantics, parsing the OP's text, and picking apart each other's interpretations of the events. If you meet an underperformer (any role, not singling DPS out here), you can speak up, kick, carry, or leave. It doesn't matter why they're underperforming, or how you feel about it, those are your only options. State your piece or pick your action and move on, every DF group is as simple as that.