Hardcore is not a dirty word

[Bled]

I always saw hardcore in a different way though.

Like on WoW some of my guild were 'hardcore' raiders. They'd be online each and every day getting the right gear, all the right stats and enchants, all the right skills, all the right talents trees, then doing the same raid all the time, practicing till they eventually got it right and won. Heck even I did, lost count how many times we all went into Icecrown Citadel, spending hours and hours wiping on Sindragosa trying to get it right.

That's how I see hardcore, it wasn't waiting or supply and demand or anything like that. It was trying your damned hardest to push yourself to the limit, doing everything you can to push forward and make it to the end.

So to me a hardcore game isn't defined by the content it gives you, it's just something that gives you a means to push yourself and focus on accomplishing difficult goals.

That sounds hardcore to me... i don't know why you would think i would say otherwise, what you said fits the bill of hardcore but so does FF11. All that you just said insert FF11 there and bam there you have it.

Just like immersion there are varying degrees, and my original post never said otherwise except for i wanted a more Hardcore experience that SE dished out in FF11.

As much as i disliked WoW i never said the end game was not hardcore.