4Gamer Interview with Yoshi-P!

[BubblyBoar]

Actually, that is how science works to test theories. It's nearly impossible to prove something is true, but it only takes 1 example to prove something is false.

Then I guess since current science is pretty much worth jack all on a subatomic level, all or science is just wrong and cant be used for anything right? But what's that? The class of physics an an exception and we still use the what we had before? Man, one of us must be SUPER wrong. And that's without mentioning the difference before a scientific law and a rule.

SWG after CU (NGE) had about the same Jobs as FFXIV and talents/traits/armor customization and the ability to also freely change jobs with respec system and semi-action combat, each class was unique and played completely different as well. Although I liked PreCU/CU a lot better since it had a multiclass system its the same argument. Lazy.

There are many (exceptions), they are just old games.

I don't know what SWG or CU are, but you kind of missed half my point in what FFXIV was designed for and what the development team wants to do. Yoshi P explicitly said he rather make a new job than a specialization. Yes, they could do it, but they rather to something different. It has nothing to do with laziness since a new job requires the same, if not more effort than a specialization.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Then I guess since current science is pretty much worth jack all on a subatomic level, all or science is just wrong and cant be used for anything right? But what's that? The class of physics an an exception and we still use the what we had before? Man, one of us must be SUPER wrong. And that's without mentioning the difference before a scientific law and a rule.



I don't know what SWG or CU are, but you kind of missed half my point in what FFXIV was designed for and what the development team wants to do. Yoshi P explicitly said he rather make a new job than a specialization. Yes, they could do it, but they rather to something different. It has nothing to do with laziness since a new job requires the same, if not more effort than a specialization.

Yet there are so few jobs and classes with little variety between them. Its pure laziness by the money this game is making compared to ones that made it work.

The quests in this game have barely any lore, they focused way too much on a story then the lore of the races and classes. We barely know much of anything about them.

You have to admit, FFXI was a lot better at some things.

Dark Knight and Paladin for example are "different" jobs, but they might as well just be specializations because they play VERY VERY similarly....

[BubblyBoar]

Yet there are so few jobs and classes with little variety between them. Its pure laziness by the money this game is making compared to ones that made it work.

The quests in this game have barely any lore, they focused way too much on a story then the lore of the races and classes. We barely know much of anything about them.

You have to admit, FFXI was a lot better at some things.

Dark Knight and Paladin for example are "different" jobs, but they might as well just be specializations because they play VERY VERY similarly....

I don't think you even understand what laziness is or understand how much work goes into implementing a job, much less three at the same time. It's not like we are only getting 1 job an expansion, we got 3! We even got a job between release and the first expansion. Maybe you should go back and do some reading about how small the FFXIV team is and how Yoshi P is desperately in need of staff. There have been job openings for the team that have been up for months and a year + that still haven't been filled. They need more people and they aren't getting them.

But all that aside, again, the reason for refusing skill trees isn't because they are too lazy to make them, but the effort going into make them would rather be placed in making new jobs.

There's plenty of world building and lore in quests. Maybe you should read over things you've missed.

Your PLD/DRK example is EXACTLY why we get new class and not skill trees. That is how they want to do them and personally, I prefer it.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

I don't think you even understand what laziness is or understand how much work goes into implementing a job, much less three at the same time. It's not like we are only getting 1 job an expansion, we got 3! We even got a job between release and the first expansion. Maybe you should go back and do some reading about how small the FFXIV team is and how Yoshi P is desperately in need of staff. There have been job openings for the team that have been up for months and a year + that still haven't been filled. They need more people and they aren't getting them.

But all that aside, again, the reason for refusing skill trees isn't because they are too lazy to make them, but the effort going into make them would rather be placed in making new jobs.

Your PLD/DRK example is EXACTLY why we get new class and not skill trees. That is how they want to do them and personally, I prefer it.

I did not say they were lazy for making them. I said the laziness altogether is on the sky.

You say there is 3 more jobs? I see a Paladin with a Greatsword and a few different moves, not exactly a new job. Just how you look at it really.

Meanwhile in EQ2, which also has a very small team make a specialization that changes the class and gives it new and different abilities, pretty much one out of 26 classes with the same amount of differences. Sure there are balance concerns for them but at least they are giving out a lot of variety.

Dark Knight could of been a new class, with a different playstyle but they decided to play it safe and make it play similar to the other classes. That is why I said lazy.

EQ2 had like 9-10 people I think working on classes and now only 2-3.

SE should be hiring more people, the game got popular! It is just silly in my opinion.

You say: Oh! Well it is harder to balance those classes and some classes are better then others and specializations are better too!

Oh... well then look at Paladin/Dark Knight/Warrior. Warrior is so much better of a Job, why are the other jobs even played?

So, even the balance isn't an excuse. You can say we have the ability to switch Jobs, but leveling in the game is such a chore and honestly why even have jobs if one job is just going to be better then the others?

Specializations at least give each class and job a powerful "spec" or move that makes them viable and not put on the shelf over other classes.

[Kaurie]

Then I guess since current science is pretty much worth jack all on a subatomic level, all or science is just wrong and cant be used for anything right? But what's that? The class of physics an an exception and we still use the what we had before? Man, one of us must be SUPER wrong. And that's without mentioning the difference before a scientific law and a rule.

I.. don't know what you are on about?

That is an assumption. I have played a wide variety of MMO's including GW1 and 2. The ones I put a long time dedication into was FFXI, WoW, and this game.

Oh I'm sorry, you mentioned that you played WoW and FFXI, so yes I made that assumption. How did you find the GW1 build customization?

Personally, I dabbled in WoW but have a lot more experience in GW1, GW2 and FFXIV.

Also, why would developers take time to develop a skill tree system for people not even going to take it seriously? It is a waste of time in that regard.

I am not sure why people won't take it seriously, I believe I've made the argument that I would take it very seriously. Further, there is a lot of stuff in the game that people do not take seriously, are they all wastes of time?

Yoshi-P said in this very interview that it is more work than needed on the developers to make specs within a job.

Indeed, that is what Yoshi has said, and that is why I am aggravated. I think it's a horrible response. "We understand that you'd enjoy this, but that's like a lot of work, so we're not going to do it." That's not a very good response to feedback. Could you imagine this response given to feedback in almost any other industry?

[BubblyBoar]

I.. don't know what you are on about?

An INCREDIBLY brief starting point for your research. Serves the purpose of explaining what I mean and nothing more.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/sci...-weirdness.htm

Stuff.

By asking for specializations, you are asking for the exact same thing. I really don't see the point you are making. You say DRK is just PLD with some slight differences. But that's exactly what a skill tree would be. So.....wat? Not to mention that DRK's gameplay is different from PLD's. So much so that I enjoy playing DRK and do not enjoy playing PLD. But if they were exactly the same playstyle, why would there even be a difference? It should feel exactly the same right? Or maybe, just maybe, you are trying to generalize to make a point. That's like saying DRG, MNK, and NIN are all the same because they are melee DPS and they have a buff to maintain. DRK's style is different and is a new job. Try seeing it for what it actually is. WAR is very different, yes, but not so powerful that it's better to run 2 WARs. Especially considering that DRK's DPS is nothing to laugh at (obvious not WAR level, but it is up there).

They are trying to hire people. It's really a combination of people not applying for the positions they have open and SE not giving the FFXIV team what they need. I agree with you, they need more people, but that's out of their hands.

And honestly, leveling is nothing. I'm a casual player and I have 3 jobs at 60 and a 4th at 59. It's not a bother if you take your time, and if you want to rush, expect it to burn you out. What it sounds like is that you want more options, but don't want to level another job to have tho options. Aren't you the same person that didn't want to rank up in PvP for the new gear?

[Nektulos-Tuor]

An INCREDIBLY brief starting point for your research. Serves the purpose of explaining what I mean and nothing more.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/sci...-weirdness.htm



By asking for specializations, you are asking for the exact same thing. I really don't see the point you are making. You say DRK is just PLD with some slight differences. But that's exactly what a skill tree would be. So.....wat? Not to mention that DRK's gameplay is different from PLD's. So much so that I enjoy playing DRK and do not enjoy playing PLD. But if they were exactly the same playstyle, why would there even be a difference? It should feel exactly the same right? Or maybe, just maybe, you are trying to generalize to make a point. That's like saying DRG, MNK, and NIN are all the same because they are melee DPS and they have a buff to maintain. DRK's style is different and is a new job. Try seeing it for what it actually is. WAR is very different, yes, but not so powerful that it's better to run 2 WARs. Especially considering that DRK's DPS is nothing to laugh at (obvious not WAR level, but it is up there).

They are trying to hire people. It's really a combination of people not applying for the positions they have open and SE not giving the FFXIV team what they need. I agree with you, they need more people, but that's out of their hands.

And honestly, leveling is nothing. I'm a casual player and I have 3 jobs at 60 and a 4th at 59. It's not a bother if you take your time, and if you want to rush, expect it to burn you out. What it sounds like is that you want more options, but don't want to level another job to have tho options. Aren't you the same person that didn't want to rank up in PvP for the new gear?

I have 3 level 60s but they are all different characters (which means I had to go through the boring tedious story 3 times.). I do not like having a character which doesn't fit the job look like it. So I have multiple characters.

I just dislike the entire Job switching system, it just seems a bit silly that a Lalafell can use a giant axe as good as the other classes and immersion breaking honestly.

[Kaurie]

An INCREDIBLY brief starting point for your research. Serves the purpose of explaining what I mean and nothing more.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/sci...-weirdness.htm

I am not sure what Quantum Physics has to do with anything.

[BubblyBoar]

I am not sure what Quantum Physics has to do with anything.

Did...you not connect the dots? I said that an exception to the rule does not invalidate the rule. You countered by saying that it does because that's how science works. And I countered that by saying that quantum physics breaks the rules science is built on. So that means that either all out science is wrong because quantum physics is an exception to normal science, or that as an exception, it does not invalidate normal science.

[Kaurie]

Did...you not connect the dots? I said that an exception to the rule does not invalidate the rule. You countered by saying that it does because that's how science works. And I countered that by saying that quantum physics breaks the rules science is built on. So that means that either all out science is wrong because quantum physics is an exception to normal science, or that as an exception, it does not invalidate normal science.

I couldn't connect the dots, because I couldn't understand your ramble of a post. When I asked for clarification you linked an article to Quantum Physics :|

Although, your clarified post helps a lot. Thanks. I would say that, generally speaking then, that is how science works. You are always trying to prove something as false. You make a hypothesis and then try to prove it wrong, and keep experimenting. The more times you experiment and cannot prove it incorrect, the more likely it is to be true. However, as soon as you prove it false, you have it.

When i am talking about how science works, I mean that is the methodology of science (or Scientific Method). I am not sure if that was clear.

SNIP

PS Velhart, just letting you know I didn't just bail on our discussion. I gave you a +1/Like/Thumbs up, because I think you make a good argument. That said, I do disagree for the most part. It all comes back to my initial post that there are great arguments on both sides for/against traits/specializations etc., and it doesn't look like either side is going to convince the other side to change their minds.