The arrogance of some people

[RiceisNice]

Like I mentioned before, my statements as a tank is all circumstantial. Mitigation cooldowns are only effective in keeping you alive for a big hit or giving more time for the healer to heal, the latter being the case in a dungeon. It's just not worth being nit picky on their healing if the tank is staying alive, unless they're ripping aggro like crazy. It also doesn't help in my example that the dps is also slow, mass pulls wouldn't die fast enough due to tp constraints and increased healing demands, even with mitigation

[Tint]

Seriously, the Healer is going to spam heals and babysit the tank so the tank never has to use cooldowns or try either? It's like that playstyle deliberately saps all the fun out of the game for half the party.

noooo, the thing that saps out all the fun out of the game is the fact that we are already 40! ilvl higher than we should for ALL content besides thordan ex and alex savage. that makes this game waay to easy. and that's also the problem with the healer dps debatte: if you are that overgeared you don't really need a healer, that's why the healer is staying around. but that's also the reason you don't need defensive cooldowns as a tank, because you are that overgeared... THAT'S the reason nobody has fun. we have build a workaround with these masspulls to keep the fun in the dungeons, but since 3.0 the tanks and healers are so overpowered with the new skills and the huge ilvl increase (from 150 to 210 in one patch xD) that this workaround doesn't longer work.

and if the only way to have fun in the game is to play a healer in the intention to NOT heal i think we have a problem here...

and to clarify this: i can agree that a healer should throw in damage in his downtimes and not staying around doing nothing. but creating this downtimes by simply not healing when the tank gets damage is a different story.

[UBERHAXED]

There is a hard cap on DPS a single person can do that's dependent on gear, rotation knowledge and player skill. Tends to be in the 1400-1500 area for single target. Unless RNGesus is with you giving you insane crits, it's basically impossible to break that cap.
Assuming a dummy-ish fight, a set of absolutely exceptional DPS and Tank can probably push out 4100-4200 DPS. The White Mage I typically run with can put out 500-600 DPS when she's playing conservatively in dungeons. That's a 11.9-14.6% DPS increase, despite the other three members doing their absolute maximum damage.

Let's not completely lie, average dps are doing 1400-1500 and good dps are up in the 2000's. Source: Practically a dummy, faust:
http://www.fflogs.com/rankings/serve...est/#boss=5001
Raid dps should be double what you are saying (over 8000) for exceptional dps and tanks. Expecting a dps to be "good" doing less than 2/3 of what they should be doing (e.g. 1000) is why we have such players. The standards are low. And no, it's not just one player doing this, there are hundreds of players from each server and each job doing this.

[Tilgung]

You're aware the DPS topping those charts are getting their entire team to compliment their damage at the sake of everyone else, right? Single Target Royal Road Balance, Battle Voiced Foes, dedicated Dragon Kick, Trick Attack and Battle Litany. Not to mention those are all exceptionally short Faust kills, which skews things higher. How about you look at Living Liquid parses and you'll see a much more realistic view of what top end DPS can do in a fight with mechanics and require the entire team to be performing optimally and not just damage padding a single DPS.

Ayyye, top end DPS aren't even popping out 1500 DPS.

DRG and NIN aren't at the top of the Faust parses because they don't have ways of cheesing dummy-ish fights like that for obscene amounts of damage, despite the fact neither of them are actually weak classes. Same applies to BRD and MCH.

Also, I was specifically talking about 4 man dungeons with those numbers. I'm very well aware Savage Groups needs vastly higher DPS to progress, considering I was wiping to A3S's enrage at 4% three weeks (or maybe a month?) into Savages release.

[Kerrigen]

That triple Bard comp for living the 100% Requiem uptime dream. fflogs is useful, but should never ever be taken seriously without looking at these parses' context to gauge appropriate DPS. The top parses are massively inflated on purpose.

[Razem5791]

As I said yesterday, whether the healer dps or not is irrelevant to me. However, if you ask my true opinion about it, I would answer by experience : I'm a vet tank, meaning I know how to survive tricky situations based my skills, my dodging, my mitigation ect. I'm not perfect, far from it since I can't make a run without a healer and dps. That's the basic of a dungeon group. Then again, I got to admit I died most of the time here, in FF14 than any other MMos before cuz of that new view of players who wants to force an obligation to healers to go DPS aswell. DPS ? Fine but I for one remember that I died many times cuz healers enjoyed and are more focused on dpsing than healing. They want to finish fast without taking others life in consideration : Egocentric people says I !

[MeiUshu]

As I said yesterday, whether the healer dps or not is irrelevant to me. However, if you ask my true opinion about it, I would answer by experience : I'm a vet tank, meaning I know how to survive tricky situations based my skills, my dodging, my mitigation ect. I'm not perfect, far from it since I can't make a run without a healer and dps. That's the basic of a dungeon group. Then again, I got to admit I died most of the time here, in FF14 than any other MMos before cuz of that new view of players who wants to force an obligation to healers to go DPS aswell. DPS ? Fine but I for one remember that I died many times cuz healers enjoyed and are more focused on dpsing than healing. They want to finish fast without taking others life in consideration : Egocentric people says I !

I for one am happy to see a tank say something like this. I dont know you, never met you and probably never will but thank you !

[Melch]

Excuse me it is not being lazy. I took healer to heal not DPS. If I wanted to DPS I would play a DPS class. If I keep everyone alive then I am doing my job.

Do you also expect the DPS to throw heals too? If no then why do you expect healers to DPS?

DPS don't really have tools that make them hybrid, only tanks and healers can do something else than just tank or heal. You have the tools why not using them?
I won't blame a healer who is only healing but you can be sure he will never get any commendation from me unless the tank sitting in tank stance only and not using any defensive cooldowns.

[UBERHAXED]

You're aware the DPS topping those charts are getting their entire team to compliment their damage at the sake of everyone else, right? Single Target Royal Road Balance, Battle Voiced Foes, dedicated Dragon Kick, Trick Attack and Battle Litany. Not to mention those are all exceptionally short Faust kills, which skews things higher. How about you look at Living Liquid parses and you'll see a much more realistic view of what top end DPS can do in a fight with mechanics and require the entire team to be performing optimally and not just damage padding a single DPS.

Ayyye, top end DPS aren't even popping out 1500 DPS.

DRG and NIN aren't at the top of the Faust parses because they don't have ways of cheesing dummy-ish fights like that for obscene amounts of damage, despite the fact neither of them are actually weak classes. Same applies to BRD and MCH.

Also, I was specifically talking about 4 man dungeons with those numbers. I'm very well aware Savage Groups needs vastly higher DPS to progress, considering I was wiping to A3S's enrage at 4% three weeks (or maybe a month?) into Savages release.

What is this I don't even... Of course the fights are short! Raid dps is high! Not just one person (I mean if one person single-handedly makes the fight time short by that much then you obviously need to cater to them but we both know that's not the case). What does giving buffs to the best dps to improve overall clear time have to do with skewing? Are you saying that people should not being using battle litany or trick attack or foe's because it makes other party members dps higher? WTF? How is using realistic buffs (e.g. disembowel, foe's requiem, trick attack) that will be present in the boss fight cheesing? As for for the 1500 comment... Are you serious? A dummy has 100% uptime. That's why dps is higher, not because of "cheesing".

Also lol I like how you intentionally chose the boss with the most mandatory downtime because it was convenient. No "padding" here:
http://www.fflogs.com/rankings/serve...atest/#boss=18
Pretty sure that beats your "top end DPS aren't even popping out 1500 DPS." by over 300.

[Odett]

What is this I don't even... Of course the fights are short! Raid dps is high! Not just one person (I mean if one person single-handedly makes the fight time short by that much then you obviously need to cater to them but we both know that's not the case). What does giving buffs to the best dps to improve overall clear time have to do with skewing?

Because an astro using The Balance exclusively on a Black Mage with 3 other BRD's as DPS to constantly keep up Foe's Requiem in a fight like Faust where no movement is required is obviously indicative of a standard raid composition and not skewed towards the BLM's favor at all.