The arrogance of some people

[Razem5791]

As I said yesterday, whether the healer dps or not is irrelevant to me. However, if you ask my true opinion about it, I would answer by experience : I'm a vet tank, meaning I know how to survive tricky situations based my skills, my dodging, my mitigation ect. I'm not perfect, far from it since I can't make a run without a healer and dps. That's the basic of a dungeon group. Then again, I got to admit I died most of the time here, in FF14 than any other MMos before cuz of that new view of players who wants to force an obligation to healers to go DPS aswell. DPS ? Fine but I for one remember that I died many times cuz healers enjoyed and are more focused on dpsing than healing. They want to finish fast without taking others life in consideration : Egocentric people says I !

[MeiUshu]

As I said yesterday, whether the healer dps or not is irrelevant to me. However, if you ask my true opinion about it, I would answer by experience : I'm a vet tank, meaning I know how to survive tricky situations based my skills, my dodging, my mitigation ect. I'm not perfect, far from it since I can't make a run without a healer and dps. That's the basic of a dungeon group. Then again, I got to admit I died most of the time here, in FF14 than any other MMos before cuz of that new view of players who wants to force an obligation to healers to go DPS aswell. DPS ? Fine but I for one remember that I died many times cuz healers enjoyed and are more focused on dpsing than healing. They want to finish fast without taking others life in consideration : Egocentric people says I !

I for one am happy to see a tank say something like this. I dont know you, never met you and probably never will but thank you !

[Elazu]

As I said yesterday, whether the healer dps or not is irrelevant to me. However, if you ask my true opinion about it, I would answer by experience : I'm a vet tank, meaning I know how to survive tricky situations based my skills, my dodging, my mitigation ect. I'm not perfect, far from it since I can't make a run without a healer and dps. That's the basic of a dungeon group. Then again, I got to admit I died most of the time here, in FF14 than any other MMos before cuz of that new view of players who wants to force an obligation to healers to go DPS aswell. DPS ? Fine but I for one remember that I died many times cuz healers enjoyed and are more focused on dpsing than healing. They want to finish fast without taking others life in consideration : Egocentric people says I !

What is your point though? Bad healers should not be regarded as the standard to measure oneself against.

[KaitlanKela]

I for one remember that I died many times cuz healers enjoyed and are more focused on dpsing than healing. They want to finish fast without taking others life in consideration : Egocentric people says I !

Can we stop bringing bad healers into the conversation? If they can't dps and keep the tank up then they need to either practice their job and get better or pick up a dps class where they don't have to worry about keeping the tank up.

This conversation is about what the expectation is for a GOOD healer. It's obvious: keep the tank up, mitigate damage, purge the debuffs. If that only takes up 50% of your time, then you need to be contributing in some other way towards the group's goals. If you are not contributing half the time and letting your teammates do the work, that is the DEFINITION of a "carry", since that word gets thrown around so much nowadays. Someone who lets their group "carry" them and is okay with it should never be the standard by which good players are measured.

I honestly can't believe we're still having this conversation. There's no argument to be had.

[Tint]

I honestly can't believe we're still having this conversation. There's no argument to be had.

i already said on page.... uhm... 36 why this conversation will never end. even if this topic will die, there will be a new one next week...

it's just a huge self-congratulation of the healers who DPS

[Odett]

i already said on page.... uhm... 36 why this conversation will never end. even if this topic will die, there will be a new one next week...

it's just a huge self-congratulation of the healers who DPS

There's no argument to be had because for the 100th time, this game wasn't made for healers to be full-time healing yet people insist that it is, leading them to either overheal, or just stand there and don absolutely nothing during downtime.

[AlexanderThorolund]

There's no argument to be had because for the 100th time, this game wasn't made for healers to be full-time healing yet people insist that it is, leading them to either overheal, or just stand there and don absolutely nothing during downtime.

I wish there was something i could do more than just like this post. I wish we could import pictures into the game, i would frame it and put it up in the FC house.

[Tint]

There's no argument to be had because for the 100th time, this game wasn't made for healers to be full-time healing yet people insist that it is, leading them to either overheal, or just stand there and don absolutely nothing during downtime.

did i ever said anything else? i am dpsing on my healer, so i am one of the GOOD healers ( yay ^^/ ). and because there is no argument against this... WHY DO YOU HAVE TO REPEAT IT OVER MORE THAN 50 PAGES THAT HEALERS SHOULD DPS? just for self-congratulation... there is NO other reason.

i just don't like how much time we have to be in cleric since 3.0. this is a game design fail. we have different classes for a reason. there should be a use for all the healing spells and emergency buttons besides the emergencys we have created by ourself because of DPS.

today playing a healer is just a simple 3-button dps who can also heal. and not a healing class who can also dps... v.v/ so... is a dpsing healer... just a lazy dps? :x

[Kaurie]

did i ever said anything else? i am dpsing on my healer, so i am one of the GOOD healers ( yay ^^/ ). and because there is no argument against this... WHY DO YOU HAVE TO REPEAT IT OVER MORE THAN 50 PAGES THAT HEALERS SHOULD DPS? just for self-congratulation... there is NO other reason.
/

Just so you are aware, you are adding to the length of this thread by complaining about it. It's even less on topic than the self-congratulation that you are suggesting we are all doing.

i just don't like how much time we have to be in cleric since 3.0. this is a game design fail. we have different classes for a reason.

I'd disagree with your middle statement though, DPSing Healers in 2.x was also very big. It's perhaps because you're a WHM and I was a SCH in 2.x that we see it differently though.

there should be a use for all the healing spells and emergency buttons besides the emergencys we have created by ourself because of DPS./

There is a use for all of your skills (well mostly). I have moved to WHM from SCH in 3.x and play SMN/WHM mostly now. On my WHM i routinely use

Cure
Cure II
Cure III
Regen
Medica
Medica II
Benediction
Assize
Asylum
Tetragrammaton
Protect
Stoneskin
Stoneskin II
Swiftcast
Raise
Eye for an Eye
Stone III
Holy
Aero III
Aero II
Presence of Mind
Divine Seal
Shroud of Saints
Aero (only use this when weaving an oGCD ability such as fluid aura)
Fluid Aura

I rarely, if ever, use:
Stone II
Blizzard II
Stone
Virus

They don't "need" to do anything else if they are fulfilling their obligation as a healer. You can not like it all you want but Yoshi confirmed this already, so it can't be considered carrying if they don't want to DPS as well as heal.

It's completely unfair to force Healers do manage double the hotbars DPS use to do half of the damage they do. I do it, but no one should "have" to do that outside of a raid enviroment, where Healer DPS is taken into consideration when making the raid.

No one needs to do anything. I don't need to be respectful when I am playing with an idiot, even though I do try to be. It's completely unfair for me to be playing with people who are not giving it their all when I am. They are reaping the same benefits as me, but putting in half the effort - that isn't fair.

I mean the obligation of a DPS is that the enemy dies right? So, if I stand still and do nothing, and the other DPS kills it - it is dead. My obligation has been filled. Is that OK? Just trying to see where your stance is on everything and where you draw the lines on how useless someone can be while also fulfilling their role.

[Wizarus]

No one needs to do anything. I don't need to be respectful when I am playing with an idiot, even though I do try to be. It's completely unfair for me to be playing with people who are not giving it their all when I am. They are reaping the same benefits as me, but putting in half the effort - that isn't fair.

I mean the obligation of a DPS is that the enemy dies right? So, if I stand still and do nothing, and the other DPS kills it - it is dead. My obligation has been filled. Is that OK? Just trying to see where your stance is on everything and where you draw the lines on how useless someone can be while also fulfilling their role.

You can kick a BLM spamming Scathe and not fear any consequence for it, but not a Healer who doesn't DPS, and we both already know the reason why, so I don't know why you brought this up.

I'm using your line of reasoning and applying it to other jobs (in this case, tanks spamming their agro combo and ignoring all their other combos) to show you how ridiculous your comment sounded. Mediocrity should not be encouraged.

A tank doing 123 the entire dungeon isn't going to keep Aggro, and will most likely go oomph, hindering their ability to keep Aggro. Besides tanks ability to keep Aggro is incorporated into dealing damage, the more damage you do, the more Emnity being generated.

Strongly disagree. Yoshi said fights are not designed with it in mind, but they can be cleared faster/easier with it. So obviously the good players are going to go the extra mile for their team and we should encourage that and not dissuade people from it.

Again "role" is only a tool used to help the queue compose parties with a toolkit varied enough to clear the instance successfully. The instance objectives are the same party-wide and if you're not contributing to them when you could be you are not as good a player as you could be. Any limitations you have regarding your perceived "role" are self-imposed and arbitrary. The game does not impose them on you.

ETA: You're a little backwards on your facts. Yoshi actually said that even savage raids were designed WITHOUT healer DPS in mind, and that they were intended to be cleared without it. However, any team that's good enough to be attempting savage is expecting their healers to be good enough to help their DPS meet the checks so they can clear it sooner/faster.

Yoshi said all of that? I could have sworn it was just "fights are not designed with it in mind". Keep in mind this is the same Yoshi who put his foot down and nerfed the 3.1 dungeons because he didn't want it to be like a 4 man raid.

I refuse to step one foot in Alex Savage, because I find it to tedious for my time(and also I'm not paying for Teamspeak on my phone) so that automatically makes me inferior to someone who does raid. I'm not using mind pot Cleric Stance rotation a soon as a Ninja uses trick attack on a dungeon boss, and I'm ok with that because extra perks like that arent needed to clear the dungeon, despite not being optimal.

I feel the same way about healers not DPSing. Honestly clearing the dungeon 2-3 minutes faster isn't mandatory we have 90 minutes in there to clear.