"Changing Tank Damage Calculation"

[Brannigan]

Rather than switching tanks' attack stat to VIT, I think they'll just

-tag Slaying gear as DRG/MNK only going forward
-tag Fending gear as Tank only going forward
-add a small amount of STR to fending gear going forward
-add 2 materia slots to 3.2 fending gear and beyond

With 17 STR/ilvl appropriate VIT/2 slots, 3.2 fending accessories would be a 100% upgrade over current slaying. Depending on how much DPS they want tanks doing, they might lower potency across the board. Alternatively, they might just make the new STR amount their baseline when determining how much DPS a fight will need (though I think they were calculating for STR accessories already in Alexander).

[Einheri]

They could just change vit into str on fending. They used to roll lock striking and maiming for drg/mnk. Now everyone can be happy and its barely any work.

again I expect no changes to gear just a reevaluation of coefficients and potency.

[AlexiIvaniskavich]

Well here's the thing: they're waiting for 3.2, which is the "next tier," so to speak. Item levels will probably go to 210-230 for new content, so it's gear that you're going to be replacing anyway. Nothing is going to affect the current "progression" raiding, and you'll likely be replacing/matching that gear with new dungeon greens anyway.

That said, I'm still not convinced they're going to be switching VIT for STR as the tanks' main source of attack power. People say it's simple, but that seems incredibly too drastic, especially when considering the entire rest of the game they'd need to retool to match (specifically looking at leveling gear and content).

Except that the new dungeons won't be dropping the 220? gear, they will likely drop 195-200 gear in similar fashion to the EX dungeons presently. The new 220 gear will be from tomes and raid, and as you should upgrade your left side gear first, the right side gear will probably still be in play for a little while atleast.

It takes just over 3 weeks of capping ESO to get 4 fending accessories, now would be the time to save for them (unless you prefer to mad dash for ESO because it will no longer be the 450 capped tome). I grabbed mine up on greed rolls from A1S. Discussed with the group that as things may change at 3.2, I was going to roll greed only with those who main other classes but also have a 60 tank. [i felt gross and needed to wash up after]

Of course this throws a wrench in those of us gearing other classes, and it there is the STRONG possiblity this is much ado about nothing. I just suggest that as a tank, be prepared in the event that STR is completely removed from our damage equation.

[repoe]

At i209 full slaying, str spec , I have equal Hp if not more then most pug MT pld/drks in deliverance.
If they make vit a dmg ppl will still complain.

[AlexiIvaniskavich]

They could just change vit into str on fending. They used to roll lock striking and maiming for drg/mnk. Now everyone can be happy and its barely any work.

again I expect no changes to gear just a reevaluation of coefficients and potency.

Why not just allow tanks to roll need on present slaying accessories? I don't see that happening, especially since SE said that they were changing tank damage calculations. (Don't recall SE mentioning anything about DRG/MNK, but hey, I've been wrong before)

[Einheri]

Like the old maiming vs striking roll locks, it was to spread loot. A drg and monk didn't necessarily have the BIS as the item they were allowed to roll need on.

What do you mean especially because they said damage calculations? All that means is they are going to change the damage formulas and threat modifiers to balance tank dps. What makes you think it would be anything more?

(1(str(.456)+det(.0013)))(potency/(skillspeed(.0956)(3)))

You change any of the coefficients you change the damage formula. this is what they will adjust to balance tank dps.

[Brannigan]

I don't have a source but I'm fairly certain the reason they gave for making changes in the first place was to make it so getting a new tanking accessory actually felt like an upgrade. As it is, i150 crafted items are a lot better than i210 fending items. Additionally, even those without crafted items will ignore fending accessories in favor of slaying. There's a few different solutions to this but one of them involves altering the items themselves.

But basically the changes aren't necessarily intended to alter tank DPS levels (though they'll probably end up doing this as well), but rather to properly reward players when they get an item drop. Like I haven't actually equipped a (raid dropped) fending accessory in battle since I got my first crafted/materia items back in 2.0.

edit:

Well, that's what I get for not reading the thread. First page:

Many of those attempting instanced raids in the early stages tend to use advanced materia melding on accessories, which lead to tanks being required to meld STR or VIT. Due to this there were times where the melded accessories were better than the accessories which dropped from clearing the instance. In order to resolve this issue, in Patch 3.2 we will be making adjustments that will change the damage calculations of tanks into a more appropriate state.

As an overall plan moving forward, we will be making adjustments so that a burden is not placed on any particular role in order to challenge a high-difficulty raid.

I still think the best way to address this is to actually adjust items (going forward). A small amount of STR on fending, class restrictions, and materia slots would put it in the perfect place. Non-tanks are probably going to end up melding VIT in their slots anyway so it wouldn't be unfair to expect tanks to shell out for 2x materia V for each accessory slot.

[AlexiIvaniskavich]

I'm not convinced that SE would have bothered saying anything at all if they didn't intend to adjust (in some form) what str means to tank damage. If they fiddle with the sub stats and reduce what the str multiplier is, without doing something else, tanks will still stack str, roll on dps accessories, meld str as much as possible. In essence, nothing will really change. Tanks will use vit to the point of survivability and then stack str. EXACTLY LIKE IT IS NOW.

Those numbers are also player theory crafted, not announced by SE. Dervy even stated that despite his best work for 2.0, there were things he still got wrong on stat weights. Why would SE bother saying anything, months in advance, if they decided to tweak something as small as what you propose? Something that minor would be relayed to us a week or two before patch.

[Einheri]

(1(str(.456)+det(.0013)))(potency/(skillspeed(.0956)(3)))

To

(1(str(.22)+vit(.25)+det(.0013)))(potency/(skillspeed(.0956)(3)))



what would be the gain? They are remvong the ability to meld main stats dont forget. So we have vit rings with vit melds? So bloated hp pools and the ability to melds dps that others dont?

The issue with the penta meld access is that tanks are the only class dependent on 2 stats. While in progression meeting hp mins apply to all just more so for a tank. They want to get away from that. Easiest way to do it is to normallze healthpools. WoW and other games have done this. It keep number bloat in both hp and damage received down and helps keep players other than the tanks from being killed too easily effort to kill the tank or the tank having so much hp that it's worthless (current issue) removing vit from fending access does this. It doesn't drastically change anything and coincides with the announced melding changes. You can get a ring with str on meld vit like every one else once you have more than you need swap to a dps meld. Simple clean easy.

[Marxam]

I do feel it can also go another way in which tank damage is open to two possibilities:

a) incoming tank damage, or
b) outgoing tank damage

I personally hope they don't change the actual out going damage of tanks. I just hope its a simple stat weight change meaning stacking more defensive values such as vit or even parry provide more benefit. However, what they could do is simply design fights that require a higher minimum hp value to survive damage. 15-16k hp outside of tank stance is too low imo. It should have been at least 20K.

Also I'm pretty salty that this is even an issue and its not the result of the player base but rather just poor implementation of a raid with focus on dps rather than mechanics. In scob mechanics killed you, not lack of dps and even in some instances like t7 too much dps can push a phase wrong leading to a wipe. I guess we just have to wait and see in 3.2 if tanks do weaker damage or damage taken will be higher.