"Changing Tank Damage Calculation"

[Brannigan]

I don't have a source but I'm fairly certain the reason they gave for making changes in the first place was to make it so getting a new tanking accessory actually felt like an upgrade. As it is, i150 crafted items are a lot better than i210 fending items. Additionally, even those without crafted items will ignore fending accessories in favor of slaying. There's a few different solutions to this but one of them involves altering the items themselves.

But basically the changes aren't necessarily intended to alter tank DPS levels (though they'll probably end up doing this as well), but rather to properly reward players when they get an item drop. Like I haven't actually equipped a (raid dropped) fending accessory in battle since I got my first crafted/materia items back in 2.0.

edit:

Well, that's what I get for not reading the thread. First page:

Many of those attempting instanced raids in the early stages tend to use advanced materia melding on accessories, which lead to tanks being required to meld STR or VIT. Due to this there were times where the melded accessories were better than the accessories which dropped from clearing the instance. In order to resolve this issue, in Patch 3.2 we will be making adjustments that will change the damage calculations of tanks into a more appropriate state.

As an overall plan moving forward, we will be making adjustments so that a burden is not placed on any particular role in order to challenge a high-difficulty raid.

I still think the best way to address this is to actually adjust items (going forward). A small amount of STR on fending, class restrictions, and materia slots would put it in the perfect place. Non-tanks are probably going to end up melding VIT in their slots anyway so it wouldn't be unfair to expect tanks to shell out for 2x materia V for each accessory slot.

[Einheri]

(1(str(.456)+det(.0013)))(potency/(skillspeed(.0956)(3)))

To

(1(str(.22)+vit(.25)+det(.0013)))(potency/(skillspeed(.0956)(3)))



what would be the gain? They are remvong the ability to meld main stats dont forget. So we have vit rings with vit melds? So bloated hp pools and the ability to melds dps that others dont?

The issue with the penta meld access is that tanks are the only class dependent on 2 stats. While in progression meeting hp mins apply to all just more so for a tank. They want to get away from that. Easiest way to do it is to normallze healthpools. WoW and other games have done this. It keep number bloat in both hp and damage received down and helps keep players other than the tanks from being killed too easily effort to kill the tank or the tank having so much hp that it's worthless (current issue) removing vit from fending access does this. It doesn't drastically change anything and coincides with the announced melding changes. You can get a ring with str on meld vit like every one else once you have more than you need swap to a dps meld. Simple clean easy.

[Marxam]

I do feel it can also go another way in which tank damage is open to two possibilities:

a) incoming tank damage, or
b) outgoing tank damage

I personally hope they don't change the actual out going damage of tanks. I just hope its a simple stat weight change meaning stacking more defensive values such as vit or even parry provide more benefit. However, what they could do is simply design fights that require a higher minimum hp value to survive damage. 15-16k hp outside of tank stance is too low imo. It should have been at least 20K.

Also I'm pretty salty that this is even an issue and its not the result of the player base but rather just poor implementation of a raid with focus on dps rather than mechanics. In scob mechanics killed you, not lack of dps and even in some instances like t7 too much dps can push a phase wrong leading to a wipe. I guess we just have to wait and see in 3.2 if tanks do weaker damage or damage taken will be higher.

[Bashum]

I'd still love to see something more inventive that creates incentive to stack VIT, but it's probably more effort than SE is willing to put in.

Warrior - increasing dmg the further from max hp you are. Maybe Fell cleave/inner beast scale based on HP missing?
DRK - One or two of their damaging abilities could consume their own hit points to use?
Pld - uhh... i dunno, they'd probably still be screwed! Or maybe the new Paladin Relic could be something like the Atma weapon from previous FFs. the more hp you have, the more dmg it does.

[RecklessLion]

Just add emnity multipliers to gear for tanks. That way system is not complicated and you can build according to your game play and not get stuck in the meta. We have three classes for crying out loud they should do things in their own perspective way.

[Syzygian]

I feel like there's a lot of irrational, borderline-emotional attachment to STR in this thread. If they make our damage scale off VIT and remove STR from our gear are people actually going to be bent out of shape about that? o.o

I wouldn't care if our damage scaled of fucking Parry as long as that stat is on our gear and we can roll need on it. If the stats and calculations are going to change next patch I think people should be preparing to shed their conceptions about what are good and bad stats now before their feelings get hurt in 3.2. No matter what, its not going to change the way our jobs play or affect any of the mechanics of those jobs. I dunno why people are infatuated with having to gear up with stuff you can't need on, I'm certainly fine with that changing and us tanks having a uniform DPS floor/ceiling based on skill and not whether we're wearing our gear or the DPS's gear.

[Giantbane]

VIT scaling would be goofy.

Probably best to just strip all VIT off right side equipment, add it to the left side equips and just have tanks use STR accessories.

[Syzygian]

VIT scaling would be goofy.

I somehow feel like this isn't an effective argument.

Probably best to just strip all VIT off right side equipment, add it to the left side equips and just have tanks use STR accessories.

That wouldn't be changing the calculations of anything, and if you mean literally taking all the VIT granted from full VIT right side and stacking it on top of all the VIT from right side, and then using STR accessories on top of that, that'd be pretty damn overpowered, like wearing full i210 VIT and STR simultaneously. I don't see that happening.

I think a good way to change the stat contribution would be to have Tank Damage based on both VIT + STR but with less weight on STR.
If we take the example of current gear and a 3:1 STR to VIT ratio in the damage calculation, we'd have:
- il210 Fending accessories would contribute 49 VIT in dmg
- ilvl150 pentamelded would contribute 29 VIT + (32/3 STR) = 39 primary stat in damage (which would be equivalent to an ilvl190 VIT accessory)

That way, VIT accessories are the clear winner for tanks but Pentamelded ones are still relevant as a stepping stone without being OP.

This would be fairly easy to implement and wouldn't require to completely revisit earlier gear.

I fail to see why this whole "revisiting" or "revising" earlier gear is certain to be some insurmountable hurdle. They added DEX to old MNK gear in 2.4, I'm fairly certain they could remove STR from our gear if they wished with minimal effort.

I'm not a fan of having this sort of half-measure half-baked damage-scales-off-VIT-but-a-little-bit-off-STR-too just to give the illusion that left side gear's STR would still have some sort of value when, at that point, we'd rather all that STR be VIT since it would be more damage.

Realistically, based on what they've said, they're almost certain to phase out STR make our damage scale off of something else. Even if we're dealing the same damage, it feels like people are going to be butthurt simply because the word "strength" won't be on their gear.

[Shinkyo]

I fail to see why this whole "revisiting" or "revising" earlier gear is certain to be some insurmountable hurdle. They added DEX to old MNK gear in 2.4, I'm fairly certain they could remove STR from our gear if they wished with minimal effort.

I'm not a fan of having this sort of half-measure half-baked damage-scales-off-VIT-but-a-little-bit-off-STR-too just to give the illusion that left side gear's STR would still have some sort of value when, at that point, we'd rather all that STR be VIT since it would be more damage.

Realistically, based on what they've said, they're almost certain to phase out STR make our damage scale off of something else. Even if we're dealing the same damage, it feels like people are going to be butthurt simply because the word "strength" won't be on their gear.

STR is going to be phased out for sure since they've already confirmed you won't be able to meld primary stats on accessories.
But you also need to manage a smooth transition and I doubt people would be happy having their current BIS pentamelded accessories worth nothing in 3.2.
Especially since those tanks may not own any up to date VIT accessories and carry only STR/pentmelded ones.

[AlexiIvaniskavich]

STR is going to be phased out for sure since they've already confirmed you won't be able to meld primary stats on accessories.
But you also need to manage a smooth transition and I doubt people would be happy having their current BIS pentamelded accessories worth nothing in 3.2.
Especially since those tanks may not own any up to date VIT accessories and carry only STR/pentmelded ones.

I recommended a week ago, in this thread, to get VIT accessories, "just in case". I still recommend this in the event SE gives no F's about smoothing a transition. But I personally like to be as prepared as possible.